Meet our guest, Deeze, an art collector, trader, and the charismatic host of the podcast "We Do A Little." Together, we'll navigate the exhilarating highs and nail-biting lows of his crypto trading journey, from holding shitcoins to trading Art Blocks.
Next, we dive into fascinating discussions surrounding the intersection of esports and crypto, along with a deep-dive into the intriguing world of CryptoPunks and the unique sense of ownership they evoke. And of course, what's a chat about digital assets without touching on the metaverse? We'll break it down, decipher its complexities and ponder over its potential.
But we're not all about digital life here. We also touch upon the importance of unplugging and the therapeutic benefits of stepping away from the screen. We talk about mental health, self-awareness and the courage to stand apart from societal norms. Tune in for insightful discussions, shared laughter, and a fair share of introspective moments with Deeze.
Deeze links:
LInktree: https://linktr.ee/deezefi
X(Twitter): https://twitter.com/DeeZe
Art Collection: https://deca.art/deeze/bestofdeeze
Art Creations: https://opensea.io/collection/deezeditions
We Do A Little Podcast: Apple, Spotify
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
Meet our guest, Deeze, an art collector, trader, and the charismatic host of the podcast "We Do A Little." Together, we'll navigate the exhilarating highs and nail-biting lows of his crypto trading journey, from holding shitcoins to trading Art Blocks.
Next, we dive into fascinating discussions surrounding the intersection of esports and crypto, along with a deep-dive into the intriguing world of CryptoPunks and the unique sense of ownership they evoke. And of course, what's a chat about digital assets without touching on the metaverse? We'll break it down, decipher its complexities and ponder over its potential.
But we're not all about digital life here. We also touch upon the importance of unplugging and the therapeutic benefits of stepping away from the screen. We talk about mental health, self-awareness and the courage to stand apart from societal norms. Tune in for insightful discussions, shared laughter, and a fair share of introspective moments with Deeze.
Deeze links:
LInktree: https://linktr.ee/deezefi
X(Twitter): https://twitter.com/DeeZe
Art Collection: https://deca.art/deeze/bestofdeeze
Art Creations: https://opensea.io/collection/deezeditions
We Do A Little Podcast: Apple, Spotify
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
GM. This is Boone and you're listening to Vaulted, a Web3 podcast series from the Schiller Archives. This episode was originally recorded on October 1st 2021 and features these these is an art collector, trader and host of the ever so comfy podcast titled we Do A Little, where he, like us, is passionate about documenting the journeys of creators and builders across the ecosystem. In this episode, we dive into his journey into collecting punks mental models, around how he views Web3, the intersection of eSports and crypto, and much, much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and guest may own NFTs discussed. Now it's time to grab some coffee and dive into this comfy combo with these.
Speaker 1:["dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"]. Good evening these. How are you, man? I'm doing well. Man, how are you doing? Good, you know for those. Well, those are listening. It's only the first 10 seconds, but this recording actually started after about an hour of vibes. So if you know these, this is gonna be a great conversation. You wouldn't start any other way ["Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"].
Speaker 2:We had a podcast before the podcast. It was just a private podcast that no one's ever gonna hear of. It was basically like a one-on-one lindy vibe, such like just fun shooting this shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, dude, it's an absolute blast. I think I've never met someone who enjoys talking as much as me, so this is gonna be. I think it was only natural in part for the course, and it's just kind of how it worked and we just, you know, we just keep it moving. But yeah, man, welcome onto the show, brother. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. I haven't done too many podcasts. I'm a person who likes to talk to other people and hear them talk, and I don't talk too much about myself, so it's cool to do something a little different for once, and I appreciate you reaching out and getting me on here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, absolutely. And for those that are listening, like I say for those that are listening, but I always like telling some of the stories, like I feel like a lot of people when, whether it's from current podcasts or just my audience, they're always like flabbergasted on how I find guests you know, and like this me getting, or me like asking you to be on the podcast was not even like a targeted request. It was like I just like reached out to Deez for help in some of the fractional servers to understand, like, why my messages were being blocked and, um, Um, that's an advice.
Speaker 1:Please do not use the word invest or share, and I just I was like you know, man, let me just like keep it real. And afterwards I just like the intuitive thought hit me, I'm like this would be a fun, this would be fun to have on the podcast, because I listened to a lot of Deez's Twitter spaces I'm involved in fractional I, you know, and it's just a like I said, if him coming on the show is gonna be anything remotely close to the vibes, this is gonna be one of my favorite episodes and that's how it happened, you know.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I love that you came into fractional and that was your like introduction to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think my introduction to fractional was when I don't even know who retweeted it or who, like, first shared it, but I actually was one of like. I was very, very early and it was like when it was your punk and like one other project on fractional and I bought, I bought into the punk and I'm like we like the punks And-.
Speaker 2:Nice Like you've been holding the punk since like the first day, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I think so. I don't remember when the first day was, but I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:I was like incredibly it was like July 26 or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Then I was like it was either within the first, probably within the first week, I would say. I would say within the first couple of days is when I found I wanna say it was like the same day. But I'm just giving myself some grace here.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I remember when I put the punk up there. I had just bought the punk for like 75-Eth or 74-Eth and the hoodie floor had already moved like really quickly from when I had bought it to when we launched fractional. And I remember thinking to myself like where do I price this at that? Like people are gonna be really excited to get a piece. But also like I didn't wanna lose like a ton of value on it and I listed it at like a hundred-Eth and I sold out like 30% of it almost instantly. Like there was so much demand for it. I was like, oh my God, that was unexpected. Like I thought people would trade it, like some people would buy it and sell it later on that day, but like everybody just bought it, no one would sell it.
Speaker 2:So then we made the hoodie game channel and like I realized after watching people buy into it that they were voting the reserve price up on the hoodie. Like I started out at, I think, like 150 Ethereum reserve, like it was definitely under 200. And I thought to myself like, oh, this thing might get bought out this week and it'll be cool to like get some people on board at a hundred and then watch it get bought out at like 150. And it'll be really cool to just see, like, how the whole process goes. What really happened is like I sold 30% of it instantly. Those people jacked up their reserve price like over 200 with their votes. I sold another like 30% of it almost instantly again and then those people took it and jacked up to the reserve price and like ever since it's been like over 600 ETH to claim that pump because, like I think the people who own it they don't wanna sell their fractions and they just like being part of the group. So it kind of opened up my eyes as to like what a community would want and what fractional buyers would want.
Speaker 2:But it's one of, like, my favorite punks. I love hoodies and pipes and like, in fact, I was able to get one at a decent time in the market and offer it up for anybody. Like felt really good and I think I've seen that thing trading like over 400 ETH at one point and I think right now it's down to 260. So it's back down to earth, probably a more fair valuation right now, but people love it and I'm just happy to like be able to offer something like this because people know that, like I'm providing liquidity, they're not gonna get quote unquote rugged, but they'll be able to sell it back to me at some point if they want. Like I don't mind putting more Ethereum in and buying more of my hoodie back because, like, I believe in it. But it's just been so fun and I'm glad like I.
Speaker 2:Now that you mentioned it, I know there was a day on Twitter when we all changed our profile pictures to the pump and you changed yours to the puck and it's just like fun to do because you're in a Twitter space and it's like 80% of the people in the space are using the same punk avatar. It looks ridiculous but like it'll fun way right, like and not to talk too much more about like actual punks, but like I think that is a cool thing to show other people like hey, if you own even like a fraction of this punk, like it's yours to use as your avatar and share it, and like it kind of is like this like group mimetic desire thing where, like, more people see more people using the pump, so they ask about it and there's a story behind it and it kind of has, I don't know. To me it's cooler than just like oh, one person owns that and uses it, but it's like, oh, a community owns it and uses it.
Speaker 1:Dude, like the whole, like hoodie gang. So I think, like I came in like low key like right after that. It was like I just saw that, like I saw the screenshot of like all the hoodie punks in the Twitter spaces and that was one of the funniest things I think I'd ever seen in this space, because it was just, it was very different. You know it was and you know, because I didn't even while I wasn't even around or I didn't have the courage like speak up or ask like if it was okay to do it, I just said, well, this is a fungible asset and I own part of it.
Speaker 1:You know so why can't I do this? You know like, and I'll tell you like I got a lot of good. I did it more as a social experiment, so, like, not even hearing that you were. And then I heard you say yesterday in a space that like, yeah, I was totally like, I actually encouraged that. I'm like, oh, cool vibes. You know like we can, we picked up on that. I picked up on that from a while away. Perfect, and yeah, dude, and I got because it was for me.
Speaker 1:It was scary, though, because, like I'm very big on making first impressions in the scene, or like you know, like, because everything's transparent and everything's like. You know like what, if they go check my wallet and they don't see a punk, like what was like, how is the rest of Twitter and how's the rest of like NFT Twitter gonna? You know, are the punks actually gonna accept this? Like? You know what's gonna happen? Are people gonna think I'm a fraud when I see my wallet? So it was kind of like a jumping off point for me, but I got such a good response and I think it was partially the punk and partially like I just put out really authentic content. Like once I had that punk.
Speaker 2:there was almost like a sense of responsibility that I felt when I put it as my avatar, like in a weird way, a lot of like yeah dude, I'm like well you have to be a good steward of this avatar, because not only are you showing you know your own opinions with it, but you're also kind of representing the group in a way where you don't wanna come off as like oh, look at that guy being a jackass, that punk. And then someone sees that punk with someone else using it and then has a negative taste in their mouth from their experience with you. You're almost saying like hey, I know that this punk is shared, so I need to be extra thoughtful with what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would literally type tweets out, delete them. I'm like is this like? Even if it's not like you know, even if it's not like a I don't even do that, man, I just spy it off.
Speaker 1:Well you know I'm and I'm learning how to do that Like, because I'm just to give you you know cause when I built my following, like it was in the streaming community and on like Twitch Twitter. You know, and it's incredibly like hyper analyzed and just like everyone, just like nitpicks everything that anyone says, and like if you say the wrong vibe, like whether you're right or wrong or whether it's authentic, like you can get out so quickly. I mean it could still happen in NFT Twitter, but it's so everything is looked at from someone on a microscope. I just never felt like I could be myself in that community. You know what I mean. I never felt like I could have an opinion and not get like just absolutely destroyed for it. You know so like, but that's what I felt when I joined NFT community is like I can be really authentic here and I feel that the people, whether they call me on it like, it's actually out of good, you know like there's a lot of people that have good nature.
Speaker 1:Of course, there are some people that like suck, but it a lot, a lot more authenticity in this space allows me to be more comfortable to actually like, speak my mind and share my thoughts and like if it takes off, great, if it pisses people off, awesome, like there's a level of like. I think that in a weird way it's just like a level of intelligence or a level of emotional intelligence, with some people where it's just like cool, like we have to be ourselves, we have to be grow, we have to grow. No one can be perfect all the time. You know what I mean. And people are like it's really bad for your mental health to try to like think of everything and be perfect all the time. It fucking sucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would never recommend like on crypto Twitter. I would just recommend being your authentic self and like that's all I've ever done. I don't know how to do anything else, right? Like I don't really have a great filter, don't really have a great way of biting my tongue. I just say what I think and if I fuck up and say something that I shouldn't have said, like I'll apologize. If it's something I shouldn't have said or if it's something that I really believe in, I'll back up what I'm saying and be like no, and I'm like this is why I think this here's why. And like the community's been nothing but good to me, just like from me being honest with them, and I think like that's what people want, right?
Speaker 2:Like we know that we're not like on LinkedIn and we're not in an office trying to like make sure that everything we say is completely like, neutered and you know, put through the scope of being professional, but it's like no, like we shoot the shit, we vibe, we tell it how it is and that's what people, I think, love about us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's like. That was what got me involved, was that? You know, I had my curiosity back in March, back when the people piece sold, but then I started like, just like meshing myself within the community and like just Taking that risk of, like you know, being incredible, like I guess I never felt like I could be that way in this other part of Twitter and it really sucked. But I'm just like these people like, like, like there's just something different and I, for whatever reason, felt like I had just struck gold. I'm like there's, these are just a bunch of people who are incredibly intelligent and they're also a bunch of meme lures at the same time and, like it may seem like a joke, but it's a complete front. Like. These people are actually incredibly smart, they're passionate, like they're like a lot of them are mostly intelligent and I just I've never felt more at home, like I tripped on a rabbit hole and I've never wanted to climb out of one.
Speaker 2:You know are calling out of it, so to say yeah, I mean, I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole Four years ago and I've never climbed out. I don't think it's like you know the matrix, right. Once you take the red pill, like you don't come back, like it's just okay, we're here, right, and that's what it feels like I don't know how you couldn't like rip me out of this space and put me anywhere else, because all I would think about is this space anyway. Like, and that's what happened with my job it just got to a point where, like, I think you have a shit about what I was doing there, like it didn't matter.
Speaker 2:All I could think about was Crypto and NFTs and like the communities were building and how this feels to me like a massive, you know crypto and then the more PG, basically, where, like, talking to you right now is like feels like a game, right, like it's fun, it's playful, it's a way to build report and like build a community and it's just like why would I be doing anything else? I Can't think of reasons why I would walk away from this, like they're not good.
Speaker 1:No, no, yeah, the feeling is mutual and, like I get to get segway to, now that we've, you know, chat a little bit like like what got you into this space, like how did you like what was, like the canvas that like Tripped, like that made you trip, and I guess what was the branch that caused you to trip down this rabbit hole. I guess it's a great way to put it it kind of comes from like the money side of things.
Speaker 2:Right, I was grinding low stakes daily fantasy in college to pay for weed and rent money and I wasn't super good, but I was good enough to like make enough during the NFL season that I could buy weed all year and like maybe cover a couple rent bills. And in 2017 I was like getting worse and worse because I wasn't putting as much time as the other people were, because I was doing it from like 2014 maybe to 2017, so like I had a lot more success in 2014 than I did in 2017, and a lot of the guys in the fantasy group I was in were talking about thing called Ethereum and this is back like NFL season 2017, so like August, september timeframe and I remember thinking to myself like this is weird, this is silly. Like I'm just gonna stick with what I know and do daily fantasy, I know and that like November around Thanksgiving, I haven't a piff anywhere, like all my friends are showing you know the bank roles that they had with fantasy and what happened in crypto with the bank role and all the money they made. I'm like why the fuck am I playing fantasy? And like sending draft Kings 15% rake on every contest and like I could just go trade this garbage that's going up and all my friends who, like I'm better at Fantasy than them, but they're making way more money than me, like I can't let this happen. Okay, let me come over here and, like I took my whole fantasy bank role, which you know it wasn't too much. I just threw it into Ethereum and like coin around, like Thanksgiving 2017, which, if you weren't around, that was around like the top of when all this shit happens.
Speaker 2:Like December in January Is when that cycle peaked. And then it was just like a long bear market With a couple ups and downs along the way. But I thought I was a fucking genius. Like that December, like I put my money in November December, like everything I bought is up 20 X. Like I was just buying garbage. I found off like Reddit and Twitter, it was just going up, I was selling it and then taking all the profit and going into more garbage. And, like Thought, I was a genius and I thought I was gonna quit my job, like within my three months. Like it was hilarious, looking back, what the top happens in January. I just get wrecked because I'm in like Tron and Ripple and, oh wow, I'm in.
Speaker 1:I'm not in.
Speaker 2:Bitcoin or eighth right, I'm in like garbage because that's what I thought of my others. All has gone up. Like 20 X is so much more than I thought 20 X has been. Keep having it, we're all gonna be rich. Like this is awesome.
Speaker 2:I had like thrown risk manager, not the window and Then, like 2018 happens and like that year was just like a slow bleed Bitcoin went from $20,000 down to like 3000 over the course of the year and I just a loss like all the money I had made, basically because I just like kept thinking these shitcoins were gonna come back. So like I cut a loss and put it into another shitcoin. That became another 50% loss. Then I put into another shitcoin. That was like 25% loss. It was like holy shit, what am I doing? So I gave myself like a crash course in personal finance and like risk management Like I didn't even know like what a dollar cost averaging strategy was at the time. It was just like, oh, I had all this money in fantasy. I took all of it and I put it into crypto and now we're gonna see what happens and over like 2018, I kind of taught myself like hey, what do I need to do to be like successful long term in this space. That isn't just like me getting lucky with shitcoins. So I stuck around. Like the most important thing with crypto is like never to quit. It's like just survive and stick around long enough and you'll do extremely well. And I still think that's the case. But I just made a friend group on Twitter like people like LumeDark and CryptoPathic followed me and you know I found a couple of discords with some like-minded people and we kind of just go in there and shitpost and it was pretty depressed in 2018 when shit was going down, like a lot of people were like me, where they just lost everything they made because they didn't know what they were doing. And they're like is this ever gonna come back? Should we quit? But like we always kind of had each other's backs and we always would talk about like how it was gonna be better someday, like it was gonna be like 2017 again if we just stuck around. So it's like really cool to have that like friend group who it was basically just like a support group, not really like helping with trades or anything, but just more like yeah, hey, we haven't killed ourselves yet, boys, like we're still here. Like you know, the sky is still green, or I mean this the this grass is still green, the sky's still blue. We're still here and Just like sticking around.
Speaker 2:You know, 2020 happens, right, and I have a bit saved up because I've been dollar-cost averaging for the last couple years and I haven't been trading. Pandemic happens and it's like, oh wow, I get to work from home now. This is cool, like I had never been able to work from home before, so I had all this extra free time at home. I was doing like one or two hours of work a day and then spending the rest of my days on like Twitter, telegram and just kind of like discords and just kind of like learning about DeFi and going into the DeFi rabbit hole, which was like Something that was newish but like had been built since like 2017, 2018, and I went down the DeFi rabbit hole and got really lucky, like that summer of 2020 with like uniswap season, and it reminds me a lot of like what's going on now in NFTs where, like you could go on uniswap by any garbage token and it was probably in a rip like two to five X in a day, because there's just all these people speculating on garbage and it reminds me a lot of like the profile pictures now where, like people are Just minting stuff but like it still works out because after they mint it, even though they spent you know half an eighth and gas or one eighth and gas, like the four is still like one and a half or two eighth and it's still money. It's like you know, keep doing it till it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:But back in uniswap season it was like that, with a bunch of shitcoins and I didn't get into NFTs until after that uniswap season it was around September 2020 I bought my first punk at the end of the month and it was because one of my friends from one of these groups that I had been in for years was he bought a zombie pump for like 15 or 20 eighth or something fucking insane. And he was telling me that like I need a zombie pump because, like I had a couple hundred eighths from uniswap summer, why wouldn't I spend 30 youth on a zombie punk? And I told my friends, like no, I'm not doing it, that's a lot of ETH. Like I've worked really hard to get this. Like I just need to keep this, it's gonna go up, it's safe. I don't want the zombie punk.
Speaker 2:So I bought a floor punk for like three and, um, I Got addicted, right. Like I bought the floor punk and then, like I think within a week, I sold them. I flipped them for like 5e and I was like, oh shit, that's fun. Like this is better than shitcoins. Like look at these things, like I can just trade a picture of a punk instead of having to trade like a pile of a shit coin. And I immediately realized like that punk wasn't for me. I needed a hoodie because I just found myself like really liking the hoodies. I bought this like ugly hoodie for 70th. I immediately regretted it. I remember buying the hoodie and then trying to sell it for 70th to break even. I think it took me like two months to sell it.
Speaker 2:Wow I bought it at the top. Like that September, that end of September, uh, start of October time in 2020 was the local top for punks and like the floor at the time was like 5e and it went all the way back down to like 2e, which doesn't seem like that much, but like, yeah, that's a big dip if you think in like percentage terms. There were half. Yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I just sat there with my hoodie, like looking at it, like fuck, I don't like this, I can't get rid of it. Like I want my 70th back. Like I was like I'm not taking a loss on this thing, like someone will buy it for what I paid. And uh, like two months later, you know someone bought it. I started thinking to myself like okay, like if I'm gonna be around these punks long term, I need to have a Better like thesis and understanding of what I'm doing. So I kind of like went through all the traits and made a list of like what my favorite stuff was and what I wanted to try to buy. So, like for me, top hats, hoodies, pipes and and smiles have always kind of been like my favorite traits, not really focused too much on like rarity. Like I I never actually like I should have bought beanies and zombies and stuff, but I just never felt like it was worth the Position size it was gonna take me to like get one of those. So I just stuck with like the traits I could afford that I really liked and I Just kind of got lucky right. Like I just stuck with it.
Speaker 2:Like I loved hanging out the punks discord. I love being around all the people in the discord. I love the community and it was just like fun to hang around. It's like even though prices were going down and stuff. It was just like, oh, this is my new home, like this is where my friends are, and I learned about like anything and everything related NFTs, all from the punks, discord and and that's kind of how I got to art blocks, because snow throw was a Punk claimer, so like he claimed punks in 2017 when they were free. That's insane. He had a bunch of zombies and he sold I don't remember how many like five, six or seven of them to fund art blocks. So he was selling zombies for 50 ethereum around that September October peak and Wow all that money to fund art blocks?
Speaker 2:That's insane. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was like oh how do I not like follow a snow throw at art blocks? Like he's one of the nicest guys in this discord? These squiggles, I think at the time were like 35 bucks or something to mint. Like it was pretty cheap and it just felt like a no-brainer right. Like I never thought a squiggle would be worth ten eighth. It was just like off snow for his awesome.
Speaker 2:Like how can we follow snow for Owen Support what he's doing because, like he's been so helpful in the punks chat and I think a lot of the NFT community like comes from the punks chat in general. Like the early people, even people now who like shit on punks, like Jimmy, like he is where he is today because of like crypto kitties and punks. Like even though he might not want to Acknowledge like punks now and you know he's a vocal ape fan who his critical punks but like punks spawned a lot of NFT and like yep, I think that was something to me that was like so corey, because at the time, even last year, like a lot of these people were still pretty active in chat and talkative. Now it's kind of crazy. The chat is no where near what it was last year, but it's it's lost some of that luster right, like a community can only get so big before. It's not the same. Yeah, yeah and it sucks, but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of really long-winded answer, like where I how I got into the crypto and NFTs.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's that's basically, that's the roadmap.
Speaker 1:Well, I believe that I mean, there's not really a short answer to any of this, you know, I mean there's not there's. You know, regardless how much people share about how they got into it. There's not, there's not a short answer. There's a lot of different variables that that play, you know, there's a lot of. I mean, there's a lot of scenarios, a lot of like experiences that, like, I think, build the conviction and like, build like the like that build that trust. And I think the, the thing that stuck out to me the most of Out of your story is it like, regardless of how bad the like the winter was, yeah, or like the bear market was, like the community in the, in the discord, was always popping like. It was like there was so many people that genuinely believed. And that is like to me.
Speaker 1:What this like, that's what's so special about punks to me is that like, the level of like, any punk owner who makes a bag on this like, like, fucking deserves it, because the amount of conviction that they've had, you know, since 2017, is honestly, unbelievable. You know, when they had to like, go through that much shit to like claim them, it wasn't as easy as it was now. You actually had to like somewhat, know how to like how to how to work, like how to like work like a really Early minting contract, you know, and I would have never like thought twice of that, you know. But the level of conviction and and the art like it's, it's special in its own way but, like you know, when you compare it to like flashiness, it's not flashy but it's historic because, like I don't know, there's just something funny about like the 8-bit name.
Speaker 1:I don't know there's just something funny about like the 8-bit nature of the punks that like it's just the people had conviction and it's not like flashy, you know, it's not like what would be considered normal art and these people still believe through it and I just think that's something special there. Like I, that's why I love the punks like they fucking earned and you you're a punk owner, so you include, you earned every bit of the bag that y'all got from punks. You know what I mean. And there's a lot of respect to be separate like. There's a lot to like be said about that.
Speaker 2:Um, there's a. There's a very prominent member of the punk community, as Amazon me sees, but he's kind of known for like saying this same thing over and over in the discord and it's basically like there's 50 million millionaires in the world and like there will probably not even ever be more than 5000 people who own a punk. So for every millionaire there's like one. What is that? Like 10 000th of a punk available and like it was kind of a meme like other millionaires will want punks someday. But like he was saying this back when punks were worth like a couple of years and Looking at it from the perspective of like hey, there's 10 000 of these. There's never gonna be more. There's also built-in like rarity hierarchy and you know, maybe these are like the new war halls or some shit and right, we always would meme it together. But like I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I really believed it until it happened.
Speaker 2:Uh, like I, you get so attached to your punks, like when you buy them it feels really hard to ever sell them. And I say that as someone who's like Whipped a good amount of punks. I think I've sold like 75 of them, um, but I feel attached to like each one I've touched in one way or another, even though I don't even own them anymore, especially the first couple, like that hoodie that I sat on from October to Thanksgiving Because I just didn't want to break. I don't want to lose on it, like I just had to break even, but like I'm still attached to all the punks in one way or another. And it feels special, like when you sell a punk to somebody and then they make it their avatar and then you like have a part in that story. Um, and it's just, it's been a wild ride and like I never thought it would happen this fast.
Speaker 2:Right, like that gradually and then suddenly phrase that's like kind of a meme is actually like completely true and it was just one of those things where, like People saw that other people coveted them, they started coveting them and like met the memetic desire feedback loop just kind of took over and there isn't that many of them, right, like there's only 10,000 of them, I think right now there's not even 3000 wallets that own a punk. Um, I'll look it up to verify. I'm not lying there, but something like that. And it's um, think of all the people on cryptids, but I have 60,000 followers, uh, and not even feel like I have that many. Like there's so many more People who have made it from crypto. So there's 3056 owners of punks. So I was a little off, wow, but there's still that's just just small number and I think of like all the crypto wealth Floating around and all the people who've made it from crypto.
Speaker 2:It's like what better way to show off your crypto wealth than, like, one of the biggest crypto assets is a flex? Uh? So I still feel like the upside on these is like immense, and I think we're gonna see some cool like d5 products that come out that use punks too. Um, so I'm excited to see what the future holds. But, like, I'm still as bullish as I was when I was um Buying my first punk, or well, first couple punks that, like I yeah, managed to hold on to. Uh, at the beginning I didn't know what I was doing, right, like I just came in and needed to be taught, um, um, I needed my hand held so that People would tell me what's legit and what's on a scam, and you know, I'm super thankful for them, because without them, like I probably just minted a bunch of stuff on rareable and then been like pissed off. It's all worth zero now, rather than right owning blue chip assets that have appreciated like a lot versus therein.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I mean it. But one thing, like one thing that I picked up there is, like I think there's a lot of like learning that has to happen here and, like you know, we're so green when we come in and there's, we're kind of just like Like spitballing, you know, like you know just just like throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks, and then we learn through, you know, either trial by fire, from from communities that surround us, and usually a mix of both. But, like you know, you just mentioned like something that you said like really resonated with me and it's why, like I feel I like digital assets better than physical. Is that like the, the challenge of like letting that punk go, even when you didn't fully believe that you've had like, even when you weren't like extremely bullish on it, like I think you were because of the emotional attachment, but you just like really hadn't recognized it at that point, you know what I mean You're weren't really self-aware of of the attachment, because, like it's so hard for me to like let some of this shit go.
Speaker 1:Like I'll put list some, some of my even they're not even Blue chips. Like I'll put some up and then I'll like immediately deal with something, not fuck that. I don't want to do that. Like, I'm too attached to like like good, this is my first one, right, it's it's wild, yeah, yeah, I mean, and to me it's easier, it's almost sell. I almost do the selfish because, like then, if I put something up and it sells, like I have no way to like back out. If it's a physical item, I could always go like pick it out from the dumpster if I really wanted to. You know what I mean. If I decided to throw something out, um, but in grift it, once it's gone, it's gone. I can't you, I mean, unless you want to buy it back some stupid price, cuz, you know, but I like that dude, um, I.
Speaker 2:I think you touched on something like once it's gone, it's gone, right, you can't Like. If you sell a punk, it's very hard to get a light kind punk back for the price that you sold it. And it's like that with a lot NFTs like, if you sell an ape that you really like and there's no ape immediately available for like the price you got, you might not ever get an ape back that you like as much as the one you just sold. So it's hard to play that game, knowing that, oh man, this like might be the last like.
Speaker 2:I've seen a few people you know what punks with the visa news where they ripped from like 60 to 140 ETH or something insane like people were trying to flip their punk and they had it listed at like 75 and they were asleep and they woke up and that punk was gone and then the floor was a hundred and it was like okay, like I Could buy a floor that I like less for the punk I sold overnight for 25 percent more, or I can sit here on the sidelines and just wait and hope it comes back down to 75. And it's tough in this space because, like you feel fellow and you want to get back in and it's hard to Fight your animal brain sometimes and just say like hey, I sold it, like, let me just wait and see what happens right, like with me with the world of women project.
Speaker 1:I was in early, I meant it early and I sold two of them for a combined total like 1.3 and that was like a mass. That was my first big win. Like that was my first win in the crypto space. And let's go Um, it was like this is sick. Like I made like like almost four, like yeah, I made like close to thirty five hundred dollars here, and now when I, and then when I flip it, or now that I go back and I look at the floor, it's like four point five and I'm like, fuck man, like it's only in this space you can make like a thousand X and actually be legit upset. You know like.
Speaker 2:I did that with a lot of my squiggles. I had minted, I think like 50 squiggles and when they were half an ethereum, I remember thinking to myself, like these are up like 12 and a half plus X, I can get back like all of my cost basis on like every art block I've ever minted. So I've sold like half of my squiggles like half an eth the piece because it was just like, hey, like this is no brainer, I have a zero cost basis, I have free roll this back and then looking back it's like oh wow, I didn't know they were gonna 20 X from where I sold them. I could have just sold by two of them six months from then and covered my whole cost basis rather than selling 25.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day it's like you don't know in that moment and you have to manage your risk and make sure that, like you're taking some profit, you have money to buy dips and then you're also, you know, taking profit that you need in RRL. Like other, different people have different needs and sometimes it's like that five thousand dollars Might wipe out some credit card debt or car you know might give you the piece of mine. That's worth more than like any NFT, and it's just important knowing that. Like you know, if I sell this it might rip 10, 20 X, and that's okay, it's okay right, you still made a thousand X on it.
Speaker 1:You know like it's it's. But you know, and and and listening to you just now like I didn't take any of that into account, like I immediately dumped it back into projects like and I, like I had I Still have a bit of credit card debt and like that would have been such a more worthy investment. But like I was just like I was too, you know tunnel visioned. I'm just like, oh my god, I got hooked on some other project. I'm like I need this to invest in that. Like I just I got completely sucked in. You know, and that would have been a great, like good chunk to like knock, like a good, you know a credit card out. You know it would have knocked at least one one-and-a-half off and that would have been out of in Chile. But you know, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1:And you, that's part of cutting your teeth and like learning like how, like just being okay with your mind being really new to the space. Like when I was, when I was a business coach for the pet, like I did that for the past, like a couple years, and Like I would always tell people when they were nervous, like once they got their LLC paperwork and they were like worried about making a mistake or worried about sucking at it. I'm just like. You know, when you rode a bike for the first time, like you probably were really terrible at it. You know like you probably like were really bad, or you had to have training wheels and you probably like Fell and skinned your knee and it's like the same shit with this, except it's with your mind. You know you just got to like. That's just part of me learning how to like understand my own thought process and have my own awareness and like who the fuck I actually am in the space. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You know the meme of like the guy on a bike who sticks a. He sticks a stick in the spoke of his tire and then like falls on the ground and he's like Blaming somebody else for what he did. I like.
Speaker 2:I feel like that everybody has that NFT Experience in one way or another where like they do something really well and then they like Literally make themselves crash with their own decision-making and then they're like looking for something to blame it on, like you know what the fuck, like man, the, the guy who minted 500 dumped on me, or like, oh, the gas fee, or you know Some excuse for like you know why they didn't manage their risk or position correctly.
Speaker 2:And it's just so funny because, like you see, it happen over and over again with new people and they learn and they get back up and it's like you know, you start out, you're on the training wheel, you fall off a couple times. I I can kind of remember when I learned how to ride a bike and it wasn't pretty I was one of those uncoronated kids who was like much better at e-sports than I was traditional sports and like, yeah, the kid riding the bike with the helmet, knee pads and elbow pads, because like I already broke in my arm and needed the extra Safety in my mind to know that like if I fell I wasn't gonna break another arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and you know, like that, that was kind of me, that was me too, you know, and like the the e-sports realm is actually what, like, this podcast was built off of. You know, that's like really where I started it it. I like I've always been fascinated with video game sports over, you know, regular sports Not that I don't like it, but I always found a fascination with it and there's just so much attention around it that I'm just like well, like, let's just talk about it. You know, like I vibe with people, like I Want to be involved and I think that there needs to be some light shed on this space. But it's just kind of fascinating how it turned into now as NFTs, and I think there's a massive crossover there.
Speaker 1:It hasn't happened yet, but it's gonna happen, it's inevitable dude, 100%, 100% gonna happen, and I just find it fascinating that there's like two worlds that I both really enjoy, like the NFD community, and then having the having that crossover with e-sports is just I don't even know what that's gonna look like, but I have some ideas and I'm really excited for it.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be awesome. I I already know of some e-sports organizations working on like NFT projects and I think it's gonna be Really cool to see the new people they bring to the space. Similar to like how v-friends brings a whole another crowd to the space. Similar to how, like Damien or the currency brings a whole another crowd into NFTs.
Speaker 2:It's like I love seeing these crossovers and it just it's a match made in heaven for gaming and NFTs and you know we're gonna get to a point where, like I, I can't imagine a world in like 20 years where, like your CS go skins or your league skins or like tradable outside of the game and don't have like real value. It just makes way too much sense for me, like it might not happen in the next five years, but in the next like 20, it's inevitable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that was, that was the biggest use case to me of like around NFTs and I still I still have my, my, my, a couple toes in the e-sports realm on Twitter and the amount of people I still see are dogging it like for like a lot of the right-click save azures in in the, in the copy paste, are, are, are in that community and it's like I so badly want to say sometimes, like you realize it, like CS go skins, or like the foundation of one of the strongest use cases for NFTs, like do you not realize that? Like, how, like people were willing to pay that much for a digital skin? This is why this is popular, because because of digital ownership, yeah, it's digital scarcity, it's the idea that you can have a non physical asset that is still verifiably scarce.
Speaker 2:And and it's like the our generation and the younger generation, it's like I have 13 or 14 year old siblings and like they One of them, my brother he'd like cuts grass to buy V bucks to spend on for night skins and like that's what he wants to put his money into is showing off his for night skins. And it's like they already understand immediately digital Value, like they don't need someone to tell them why a digital item has value. And when you trade these things or you move them around and you realize, like you know, there's no friction really outside of gas In some small fees depending on what you're trading. It's so much better than the physical component of you know, holding on to collectibles that can get destroyed in a fire they can get. You know, your dog can chew on it.
Speaker 2:I'm Destroyed in so many other ways. Like that can't happen with the digital item and it's always pristine. It's always, you know, psa 10 if you will. But like going back to the CS go, it's like I know a lot of kids in college who are using all their skins just to gamble, like they would take their CS go skins, send them to another account, basically, and then use it as currency on gambling websites. And it's like yeah, that's a day, it's a token that's representing a US dollar value on the help that is letting you Gamble with it, which is like what we're doing in crypto, but natively, not through a third-party trusted Intermediary that we have to trust. It's like everything in crypto. It's basically open source, transparent. You don't need to worry about like is this thing legit or not? It's very, you know, easy to verify. Hey, this is legit contract, these are legit items. Here's the legit provenance behind these items. And like go from there and hit the ground running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's. It's funny you mentioned the fortnight skin because I actually have a neighbor who Fortnight's one of his favorite games and when I was, it was probably one of my better descriptions for someone who's completely new to the space. And I just said, you know, I was like when you, for example, when you download a fortnight skin, you know, do you, do you actually own that skin? Like, do you actually own that emote? And he's like sat there for like a good 20 seconds. He's like, well, no, and I'm like, well, what are you paying for? Then you know what I mean. And just to kind of like build a strong, like to like to plan an idea like you know, like epic could like swipe that, that emote and delete your account and you'd have nothing you could do about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they could really count and tell you to go pound salt, but all your money you spent was wasted.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, and that was like the one thing that like in same thing with music like we, we download a song of iTunes, like, but we don't have commercial rights to it, we still get a DMCA takedown if we put it on Twitter, you know, in a mix-up. So, like, what the fuck are we actually buying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the right to enjoy this song, right right and they get paid off of my right to enjoy it, but I can't actually use this for my benefit or to create any sort of meaningful product from it. And that was like like that was like got his head scratching. I was like, before we go, I'm not gonna go down the rabbit hole, you can just listen to my episodes and talk to me whatever you want to, but that was that was like my main thing. That literally happened like three hours ago.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I mean, but my biggest thing is like I play Valorant. You know that's what I'm currently playing right now and the web, like the weapons skins on Valorant are top tier and above any other Thing that I've ever seen and no one like I will die on that hill there's. They have some of the coolest animations and like, if you buy a full bundle and Valorant, if you trick out All the guns that you get in the premium bundles, plus all the the add-ons for all the animations and the colors and the variants Like you, I did the math you're spending around $360 per bundle, a fiat, you know, and when you put that in Ethereum, it feels cheap.
Speaker 2:I got point one in Right right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's still on a buddy, yeah for sure it's. It's a lot. And you multiply that by like once a month drops, or once every 60 day drops. Like you know, when you're not, when you're spending an asset that's not appreciating, like the US dollar, for example, like that's a lot of money, you know, and you have to like make decisions on whether you like which drops you want to like participate in which ones you don't, because, like you, you can't like rely on something like a project or a weapon skin ripping that day to like fund your next, like you know, valorant purchase. Like you just kind of have to like save up and hope you can do it. Or eat, you know, have like those ice salads for a little while if you really want to have it.
Speaker 2:I Think you're down the ice salad rabbit hole. You're eating a ketchup sandwich with your ice salad problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the water will absorb the bread, which will expand your stomach, and the ketchup is just for like, just so you like have some sort of flavor. Oh yeah, yeah, dude, I mean, but that that's been, that's been like the main touch, like the talking point from that, and I think it's really cool that we see people like Nate shot like, and we see people like we see like Own, a crypto punk, and we see Jackson, we see Blake like they own squiggles and they own punks themselves.
Speaker 2:I actually I traded Blake to squiggles. No shit yeah the two squiggles he has, or two that I meant to, and it was like pretty cool and important for me to get those to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I always look at my own squiggles is, like you know, I'm stewarding this provenance in a certain way and it feels really good to like get them in the hands of people I really admire and, like Blake is someone who had Met me from crypto Twitter but, like I had been following him since 2017, like 2018, sorry, after I like talked about destroying myself and building up my foundation, like his writing and podcast appearances at the time were like wow, like this dude's my age and he is like Three million times smarter than like I'll ever be like I'm gonna follow this guy and see what he's doing because he's a good role model and knows his shit and it's really cool, like you know, a couple years later to come full circle and now he's like talking to me about art blocks and NFTs and what he should get into it.
Speaker 2:It's like, dude, like I Admired you for so long you had no idea who I was like. Is this real life? But yeah, the space is crazy.
Speaker 1:It's nuts, I mean, and just like a small like, kind of like, speaking on that same topic, I haven't gotten to where I can trade some NFTs, but like FWIS, like the head of gaming at YouTube actually gave me a follow the other day and I'm just like I've been following you for years and I really like what you're putting out and I I shot him a DM like I'm like dude, this is kind of insane, but like I love the crossover that you're doing to have someone at the head of gaming on YouTube Like start getting involved with the NFT community.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really cool crossover and having people like yourself are gonna be instrumental to moving the space. And I'm just thinking like I'm this like measly guy with 2,000 followers you know what I mean and he's out like that's just what's so wild about this space is that, like the, the Giga brains, like I like to call them, are like Understand what's happening here, and so the level of access that we get to have for people who are really like about it is unbelievable. You know what I mean. It just it's it's insane to think that because, like, if without NFTs, like there's no way I would have made some of the connections that I have, or some of the People that are following me or value what I have to say. They wouldn't get too shits about it and there would be 18 barriers in my way to even like get a shot at sniffing one of their farts. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it was awesome to, like we were talking before this call a little bit about my backstory. Like I remember him being like game battles mod, like in like 2008, and then he was like a commentator for, like you know, the really low entry like $2,500 a person Tournaments and like just to watch him go, like I'm from Ohio, he's from Ohio it's like kind of a vibe to, you know, watch someone go from Cleveland to California and make it right, like a lot of us.
Speaker 2:You know we're in Ohio, we don't really, we're just here because we grew up here and it was cool. He was always like a role model to see, like, oh man, like you know, you can put your heart and soul into what you believe in and like get the fuck out of Ohio and chase your dream. So it's crazy now, like you know, 10 years later or 13 years later, for him to come into the NFT side is the head of YouTube gaming and like get into the spaces as well.
Speaker 1:It's nuts man. Like I know that. I noticed like because I saw him make a couple tweets about it. And then when I saw him like post a good morning or a GM yeah, on the timeline, I'm like, oh dude, he's in GM, yeah, yeah. And for those who are like not in this community, like it like when you understand what GM means it's more than a good morning. Like when you understand that we're always having a good morning, no matter what time of the day it is. Like that means you like. I think that's that's the sign of like, that's a signal of making it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean in this space. It's like my average day. I wake up, I go to the bathroom, I look at my phone and then I just sit there I say GM and like at least two different places, and then I drop a HM Fire member in the hoodie check cuz yep, we don't say good, we say hood, which I love. Like I didn't come up with that, someone else did, but it was just like yeah, that's brilliant, that's what we're gonna do. So like we have good morning, good morning and hood morning and I just it's like just a reminder that like hey, the community is opening, it's welcome. Like you're welcome here as an individual with whatever you can contribute. It's just good vibes, right. Like how do you get mad at someone saying Good morning?
Speaker 1:Right, you can't, I mean like unless you like like. I love loop, I love lupas. I like to talk to guys GM memes and seratoshi and those are. Those are some of the funniest accounts to follow in the scene, because those guys are just like like topped here when it comes to the memes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so she's on his own level.
Speaker 1:Dude, the one with the Chad, where it says, like you know, average GM enthusiast, like actually has a good morning, doesn't matter, like. And then there's a dude like like boiling over here, it doesn't have a good morning, is really an happy with life. Be hate to see man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's I, just I can't imagine not having a good morning right. You don't have a good morning. Well, I'm sorry, you're just, you know.
Speaker 1:Aircraft. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe you should and you, maybe you'll make it. Maybe you have a better chance at making it if you just have a good morning, right? Oh, but I, that's part of like what I think this is the most fascinating thing about this, this scene, is it like we're, I Think, what to me, just like zooming out a little bit and look if I was an outsider, looking at like this is like beautiful, like crossover of Technology, like people's, you know, a bunch of nerds and their imaginations and and internet culture all into like one, like community, you know, and and also, not to mention, like like financial knowledge and like understanding how shit works, you know, and creating something new, like there's just like this cluster fuck of like all these different things like combined into one.
Speaker 1:And Like when I saw people and like I genuinely laughed when I said good morning on a thread, or like when I really felt I'm like dude, this is actually real. Like these aren't, these people aren't bolstering. They were actually having a good morning and this is one of the coolest, most vibes Twitter space, like the most, like the coolest Space on social media. My opinion, because of that, you know, like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not just bullshitting. Nice like what. We want to welcome everybody to come to the space and join us and build together, right. Like. We don't want anyone to feel like you know they shouldn't have a good morning and, at the end of the day, like you could have a really shitty morning on paper. But you can always make it a good morning Like it's, it's a mindset, it's not a like you have really bad news or really you know Unfortunate times, but you can still make it a good morning.
Speaker 1:The choice is yours Always. I mean, you know, and that's. I actually shared that with a friend and he, like it took him a little while to get it. He's like, oh my god, dude, these, they're actually like it's authentic, like there's. You know, these people have found something. It's like we struck gold, you know, and then we're just all like learning about it and welcoming people in and like understanding, like, how all this shit works.
Speaker 1:And it was just like he caught on to it instantly and he's but he's also one of those, like one of my friends, like he doesn't have enough to like really invest right now. And he's just like, oh my god, I feel like it's just taking off and, like you know, I'm like I'm missing out on all this opportunity. I'm like, dude, the fact that you were even like that fact that you even get this concept, like you're gonna make it yeah, you're excited about it. You have entrepreneurial mindset. Like you literally are running your own business right now. Like bro, you got a business to run. Like you're gonna make it. You're gonna find a way to integrate this into what you're doing in the future. You know what I mean and that's the thing.
Speaker 2:It's like a lot of people. They just need to be aware of it and the potential use cases that they can get from this and maybe it gets to a point where they can integrate it in what they're doing, where they do have risk capital to come in and put in with stuff. And that was a big reason why I wanted to get behind. Fractional so much too is like I don't want people to come in the space who might not have a lot of risk capital and they have to mint a new profile picture to try to make it.
Speaker 2:And I like the fractional way of looking at it, where it's like okay, well, you can just fractually own a small chunk of a blue chip, and the blue chip is probably not going to go up 10x you know like a mint could or 50x.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day the downside on that also is like you could get out for a lot less than you know. If you min into a new project and it doesn't take off, or you like burn your gas money and you don't get anything, then you don't have anything to show for it. But at least with the fraction it's okay. You can say like I own half a percent of this pump, or like I own 0.1% of this x copy, but it's like you know that you own a blue chip and that your value is stored in a way that isn't as risky and it's like a lower barrier to entry in a way. So I was a big fan of when I heard the concept and that's kind of why I was like okay, I'll quit my job and like join this team. Like this is a no writer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, what you'll do is incredible because I've been able to own actions of a lot, of, a lot of like blue chip projects, like you know the twin flames, some of the art blocks, you know the punk and shit, even the feisty dog. You know, that's a wild one, I'm still a part of that. But like these are things that, like I, historically like would have never I don't have any sort of like, I'm not even close to being able to like think about affording one of these. You know what I mean and so it's that to me, was like the coolest part.
Speaker 1:And then, like you built an entire section in in the fractional discord for those token holders and, like photo built an entire discord around its token holders and they're doing free drops and they're literally building a community around people who own fractions of some of the most sought after pieces of work, like in the, in the let's call it the metaverse right now. You know what I mean and that's just that's something really cool, because I'll tell you I've learned more about finance since I've fractionalized or like, since I bought like fractions of some of these pieces and I have, in my entire 20, 29 years of being on this earth. You know, like I don't even I never really understood traditional financial models, but like I'd rather understand like, like defy, something I can get down with. It's something I I'm really like okay, we're trying to learn and I get to do it not trading some shit coins, but I get to do it around art, you know what I mean, and that's just pretty fucking cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I think it's almost easier to conceptualize, to like when you're doing it around art and you're like, okay, like at the end of the day, if the liquidity pool you know the curator takes out the liquidity, like this fraction is still a percent of the physical, not the physical, but the, the 101 NFT or the vault of NFTs, and it's not like you just have this like a femoral token that is a quote, unquote, valueless governance token. It's backed by, like, nothing other than speculation, but you actually have a piece of something that, if it's bought out, you know you get a chunk of the Ethereum used in the buyout. So, like I've noticed a lot of our users at fractional, this seems to be their first foray into DeFi period. It's something that I didn't necessarily assume would be the case when I got on board, but it's been cool to see like, wow.
Speaker 2:So a lot of these people they got an NFTs first Like it's different from me, you know. I said hey, I came from the background of trading shit coins on Uniswap last year and I got lucky and then I took some of that profit and I rolled it into NFTs. A lot of these people got straight in the NFTs and now they're like okay, how does DeFi work? Like, how does Uniswap work? What's a liquidity pool? Like these terms are all completely new to them and it's really clear to me that like we need like a better way of like educating. But also it's just really cool to see like, okay, they're finally making a leap with these finance principles now and they may have not ever thought about it if it wasn't for the idea of fractional owning an NFT.
Speaker 1:Right, right, like because think about even it's changing the way people think about it, like there's an incentive to learn it. You know, there's an actual incentive to like to learn this, because then you can kind of trip down the DeFi rabbit hole and learn about DeFi and how that is going to function, and I just I think it's a beautiful crossover, because it it's I don't know, I don't even know the right words to say it, but like I've yeah, I've learned more about this and sometimes I think, and actually my question to you in the beginning was like, why would like? Why wouldn't I sell this when it's at 137? You're like, well, like, of course, this wasn't like you know, like you're what? Like to answer the question that I had is like you're betting that it's going to go further. You know you're betting that it's going to go beyond that, but you can, you know it's. It's that's like why I just didn't understand it at the time.
Speaker 1:But you know, I went down the rabbit hole of like learning how DeFi protocols work and even on the Ethereum website, like I read that, like that probably that 30 to 45 minute read about all the depths of that it went. I'm just like holy shit like I, that I didn't know this. This would have never even crossed my radar if I hadn't invested in that. You know what I mean. That's awesome, yeah, yeah, dude, it's actually been a huge part of it Cause like and then you I think that's not to gas you up, but I'm going to gas you up a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's like why, like, the vibes are always so good, is it like? Not only is this a really helpful tool, but you bring all of these spaces to Twitter and you bring like this insanely helpful community along with you and, like you share a bunch of stories and you share your experience and you share like a lot of how this works and you write blog posts. You're like, you know like that that's like what makes it come full circle. You know it's not just like here we got this fancy tool and if you need help, like just rightfully fuck off.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, yeah, no it can't be like that, right, like how can you build a community with the ethos that like, learn it or fuck off? Like that's not going to work. You have to be pragmatic and real. Like I can't, I get a lot of requests to do a lot of things. I can't do, specifically like promote vaults that I think are vastly overpriced. I won't name any, like specific people, but you know it. They reach out and they're like hey, can you help me promote my vault? And I look at it and I'm like you're asking like five X the floor of an eight for a four eight. Like I can't promote that, like I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2:But it's also important to be around and be available to answer questions.
Speaker 2:Like right now I have mild anxiety. I see that like I have three ads in the fractional discord and while we've been on this call, it's like I'm not going to go answer them because I want to be focused and present on our call. But I can see it on my top screen the red things are thinking to myself like you know, what could it be? Like you know, it's just how my brain works and it's like I am here to help everybody make sure that they know what they're getting into, they know that they're making a decision with all the information they need to make it and I'm here to help. Like I don't have any financial advice, I don't have all the answers with the legal advice, but like I can help them understand not only the fractional platform but, you know, swap v three, the liquidity pools, automatic market makers and all that fun stuff, and make sure that, like at the end of the day, they're looking at the picture and knowing everything in the picture and not just like clicking buttons and hoping numbers go up.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and you know, and I think that there's a fun element to that Like I actually that's kind of how I did it Like I kind of understand this. So I'm only going to bet what I can afford to lose, you know, because I don't like I kind of get it but I also kind of don't get it. But this is a low enough like. It's almost like I have to have like a very small participation amount in order for me to like be motivated to learn it. That's just like kind of like my, that's just like how I operate.
Speaker 1:It's hard for me to like be invested in it If I'm not invested in it. I'm in some way shape or form and that's like literally how I learned. And then I'm like oh cool, you can vote in the valuation. Oh cool, like it can rip above. You know, like I can get like literally like close to like 10x what I invested in. But you know, I could wait and see what happens to it and I'm still learning about it. But I think everyone it's important because, like everyone's got to have their own, everyone's got to have their own like like way they do it. You know, if that's not how you do it, then fine. But for someone like me, there's only so much I can read before. I'm just like okay, I got to experience this and like do a little trial by fire, so then I can actually like feel confident and know what the fuck I'm doing here, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you have to have skin in the game to really feel the weight of your own decisions and to fully understand, like where did that gas money go? Why did this transaction fail? What is slippage? You know all that different stuff. It's harder to think about it in theory without actually putting capital in and learning how it works, and I'm one of those people too where, like I'd need to make the mistakes myself and learn a lot of times it's really hard for me just to look at something in theory and understand it before ever trying to put it in practice. I think a lot of people are that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's, but that's also. It took me a good three to four months before I was actually comfortable doing that. You know, I invested heavily in knowledge and I'm very, you know, kind of similar to Gary in the sense that, like you know, I like to put in a lot of homework for something I really don't understand, and then there's a certain point where my mind just cannot contain any more information before I actually just go out and do it. You know, and I'm like maybe so opposite.
Speaker 2:Like I don't really too much at all in my mind, I just go do it, like I just take a small amount and just immediately go into it. Yeah, rather than like researching beforehand, I am like good at just jumping into cold water in the deep end and then like treading water and then learning how to swim. Like that's maybe something unique to me, but that's how I've done most everything in this space. Like a lot of people come up to me and they're like hey, I want resources on like D5. Do you have any good recommendations?
Speaker 2:Like you mean blog posts or Twitter threads, and I'm like I'm like one of the worst people asked for this, because I just learned it by throwing shit at the wall and seeing what's stuck and like I didn't bookmark stuff and I didn't keep a great log of like what I read and now most of the knowledge I have is like just blended from so much experience and so little writing. It's like my advice is really bad. When they ask, I feel bad because I'm like I don't really have great sources. I kind of just jumped in and lost like a lot of money and then learned like basic finance so that I didn't lose a lot of money again. Right, it's pretty simple. People don't want to hear that. No, no, and I want to rewind it back a little.
Speaker 1:Like I think it was because I didn't even understand Ethereum at the time, like when I first found out about it. So I think my heavy research was like just understanding the blockchain and Ethereum in general. Like that's like really where I took my you know long approach. But like it's funny that you said it, because I've tried taking it with different approaches and tried to like document and be really formal about it. And when I just like ape in with like a small bit of knowledge, it's generally a little easier for me. But it kind of took you saying that to actually have me be aware of that. So that's actually kind of funny Because I've tried to like take that strategy of like going into some of these projects was a lot of knowledge about who these people are, what they've done, you know, all these other things.
Speaker 1:But like when I just kind of like I'm like cool, I like that there's a couple good things that they've done and they're really transparent, sick, you know. And then if I get burned, well you know, now I know what to look for. Or now I know what to not like. Now I know like what the wrong thing is, I guess for me, you know.
Speaker 2:But no, it's the thing right. It's like you constantly are going to make mistakes. Gather feedback from those mistakes. Look back and then adjust, going forward based off of those mistakes, and that's like what most of us are doing, if not everyone should be doing.
Speaker 1:Right, right, but I think we've we've got, we've crossed the line into a cult like we're in a culture where, like it's like if I fail the first time then I'm just going to quit all together. You know what I mean and the way I view this is that, like that's like a web to culture that's been like, especially with Instagram. You know we're taught like perfection, only share the W's, only like you can't make mistakes or else you know you're a failure or you're a loser or whatever the case may be. That's just kind of a culture we just like, adopted out of nowhere and we didn't really fight it. You know, and that's what I think makes this thing. So there's like you can like.
Speaker 1:If you try to bring that mentality to Web three or well, damien's Web three, like you are, like you are just not gonna fucking make it because that, like this, takes so much trial by fire and not many people are wanting to do that.
Speaker 1:There's actually a props and drops episode I listened to with Gary and the Matt like don't want the Coe and the draft Kings, and they were talking about this, that when, when, when her, when one of the guys was talking, he's like what if people just want to come in and buy something real quick and you're like no, fuck that man like this is not an easy thing. Like people need to actually like either learn or put in some homework, or do the both. Like there's no like shortcuts in this, in this game. Like there's absolutely zero shortcuts from what I found. And when you do like it's, you're just like exposed and then you either delete Twitter or like you continue doing the same shit. That's just what I've noticed. I think that like this incentivizes people to the right thing, because it's literally an immutable ledger that is completely public and cannot be changed. So it's like, why like? Why try to shortcut it? You're going to fail really hard if you do that here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not even just the NFT space, but everything in life. Like everyone wants a prescription and they don't want to be told that. Like it's simple but not easy, right? Like there are two different things. Like it's a lot like working out.
Speaker 2:A lot of people would rather just like take a pill to like burn weight or like even get surgery to lose weight, then like show up to the gym for an hour every other day, right, like they don't want to be told that they need to put in that much time.
Speaker 2:They want you to give them a prescription that they can follow to become, you know, whatever you promised them. And a lot of people are taking advantage of because that mindset is so popular. Like with a lot of these, like guides and courses on like how to be a successful person on Twitter and crypto and stuff. He's cringe because you just know it's all bullshit, but people are just like addicted to the prescriptions in that sense and, at the end of the day, like, oh, I think we can do is just be like open and honest and tell them like you know, like you just said, there is no shortcut. You got to put in your time. You need to survive before you can thrive in this space, and it's really important to just take every day, one day at a time. Learn a little bit more, stack up your knowledge, legos a little bit more, and eventually you're going to be where you need to be, but it's not going to happen overnight.
Speaker 1:No, no, it won't, If you think it is you're going to have a really bad time.
Speaker 2:And like we've talked to artists who come into space and they're like, hey, I've been making NFT art since like July and it's not working out. I want to quit. And like I emphasize with them. But I also want to say like just quit them. Like if you, if it's stressing you out so much and you don't have the success you want to see, like just quit, because where you're at right now, you're going to have to be here for a lot longer to see the fruits of your labors. Like it just doesn't happen. In a month you can't just like sign up for a Twitter, tweet your art and then be like why am I not getting sales Right? And it's the same with like people who come into, like flip NFTs or make money. It's like you can't come in and make your first project, lose money and then just quit because you didn't make money. Like you have to deal with the punches and learn from your mistakes and then adjust to adjust going forward, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, and I think I had a really humbling lesson when I first got into like content creation on Twitch. I, just because I was, I was very like, I was just new to Twitter in general and I just didn't understand shit about streaming and I'm like, well, how do I get like more viewers or like what's like? And and I did one of the most disingenuous things. But it really humbled me and I didn't figure it out to later. But like I'm like, oh, dude, people like charity streams and like you know all, like I'll donate all this money to like you know all these different causes and it'll be great. And dude, I had like maybe like like 10 or 20 followers. You know what I mean and like this is this will bring people in. You know, as we like my shortcut to success, and I wasn't like deliberately, I wasn't like blatantly thinking that, but like that's what my action showed. You know it just goes to show that like, like I had good intentions, but you know the execution was really far off and kind of like we were talking about the bike, like this was like me when my father took the training wheels off and like I just I fell to the ground because I'll tell you these like, not one person in 12 hours showed it to my stream.
Speaker 1:That was one of the most humbling things I think I had ever done or I like has ever happened to me, because I'm like, oh, like, people need to trust you, like before they give money to a random PayPal account for someone they've never met before you know. But unless you do that, you don't really know until you do it. Or at least for me, like I had no clue and that, like was a huge learning experience that I was like, well, shit, maybe I need to, like I'm good at building relationships, why not? Why not do what I'm good at and that maybe bring more people in? And then the next time, at a charity stream, I raised like a thousand dollars, you know, like a year and a half later. But like you don't you don't use a charity stream to like build your following. This is not how it works and people will pick up on that, and I was also at zero viewers at the bottom of the Twitch page, so no one fucking saw me anyway, even if they wanted to.
Speaker 2:You see the same thing too in the NFT space. Like people come in and their first collection is a charity collection and, like I love to support charities, at the end of the day, it's like not how you should build your audience, that's how you should give back, like after you've built it yeah yeah, because you know you might be the most charitable person in the world. But like people are going to look at it with, like you know, some hesitation sometimes and be like, ok, why is there like first project? Why is 80% coming to charity? Like I haven't sold anything yet, right, right. But people have like good hearts and good nature and it's like not coming from a bad place.
Speaker 2:But you know you might find out that that first project, even though you thought you're going to give 80% to charity, it's still going to sell out because you know you don't have the community to get excited about it or whatnot. And it's a humbling thing, right. Like, oh man, like, even if I want to give it to charity, I can't, ok, like, how do I go back and build genuine connections with genuine people to grow my community going forward?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's, yeah, I've seen that and that's like there was a couple like there's a couple times I've seen that and it's just it's kind of fascinating how, like a lot of that experience from my streaming career is like, you know, and I wasn't like incredibly successful doing it, you know, like it was a very small time but like a lot of the lessons that were learned from that like were completely carried over, because you see the same shit and like in streaming Twitter, except arguably it's a lot more toxic and no one's willing to help you or the help is so vague that you don't even know how to like take action going forward, you know, but it's, yeah, I mean, I think with me, I always tried my best to assume good intentions, you know, and then let people show their bad intentions, you know, because time will eventually tell if they're a bad actor or not.
Speaker 1:I just think the challenge with me is like learning how to do that without getting burned, or like, if I'm giving like, what am I giving? What am I like, how much transparency should I provide? But you know, like people are going to, like people are going to show their cards one way or the other. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll come out eventually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and on the blockchain it's kind of like you know it's like it's inevitable and you know you may be able to get away with it for a certain period of time, but, like, eventually, like people can find it out. And I think that's like one of the most fascinating parts about NFTs and crypto in general is that, like you know the traditional world, you can always cover something up or pad the expense account or, like you know, like fud the numbers, like like with this, you can't it literally will come out in one way shape or form.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we've seen like we won't call out any right people or organizations, but you know, we've definitely seen behavior that is not supported by the rocks and any that might have been hidden for a little bit that doesn't come out until months later, but like it's all there and it can all be referenced at any point and it's not going anywhere. So like if you do shady shit and you do it in a way that's not obfuscated, like don't be allowed an alphabet, because there's a chance that there's people out there looking at that and they'll bring it up and they're not afraid. And I don't think they should be. Like I love it about this space. We're very self policing, right. Like we see some bullshit, we just call it out Like yo dude, what the fuck are you doing? Like this is not right. Like we're not afraid to put our reputation or our you know word on the line, to like call out bullshit, and I really value that in this community. I hope it stays like that as we get larger and larger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's what like. I mean I already liked, you know, like when I started following you and like going to like, like going to the Lindy talks on spaces, like I already like, like the vibe, but then there was a lot of shit that you called out from both Pranksy and and beanie Alice. I guess I wasn't gonna try name drop, but I did.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine.
Speaker 1:But like, calling, calling out the drama like as it is, like it's like taking a neutral position and calling bullshit on both sides. You know, and that was I'm like, oh dude, like yeah, I've seen this guy interact with both of them. You know, like, and I've seen, like, I've seen different things, but he's also able to like, call a spade a spade and and that's like what a lot of what solidified. You know, like that's I think I'm one of the reasons why I continue to follow, but like, I think it's why, like, you're growing your, your like filing has grown because, like it's humans are naturally disingenuous, you know, like, and when someone calls it, calls it like it is and not is not afraid of like getting their feelings hurt or that person not liking them or them not going to make it like. That's what gets noticed in the scene, because it's it's so uncommon to see that, especially on social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for me it's like me just being myself, right. Yeah, it's just me trying to vibe and like be my authentic self online and I don't really know how to act any other way other than that. And I guess that's like lucky for me, right. Like I am on a sociopath, like I can't sit here and think about all that shit, like I can just be straight up, honest and genuine and if people like me, cool, and if they don't, that's cool too, because I'm really confident in myself, I'm confident how I treat other people and I know that if somebody is going off on me and like it doesn't affect me at all, I'm not having a bad day, like they can't really bring me down. I think it's just a lucky that my nature is whether this yeah, and you don't have to work on it.
Speaker 1:You know, and all you can really take them, as they're just not going to have a good morning.
Speaker 2:Like literally, people find me over something and you just say back like GM. What are they going to tell you go fuck yourself and you're just like GM. And then they look even stupider because they're clearly not having a GM.
Speaker 1:They're not and if they were, they wouldn't be in the space right now or they wouldn't be in this predicament right now and they would not be upset. No, they wouldn't be. You touched on a portion like I think is really something I've actually been studying a lot, especially since the punks floor ripped like about like self policing and self governing. You know, like I saw when the moment that visa bought that punk, a seed phrase came out and immediately delisted his, his punk, which he had it on sale for like I don't know what the exact price was, but it was $200 million and the fact that I saw him delist that because he understood what was happening. Like if companies come in and like just absorb the market share, like of punks, like then it kind of defeats the purpose and then companies own the most valuable asset, like the most valuable crypto asset. I should say yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's like. It's a mixture of like. We want to sell them our bags at a high price. That changes our life, but we want to still hold the keys to the culture and we don't want them to take those and make it their own because we think they won't be good stewards of what we've built.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, I just looked. You had it listed for 60,000 and then he withdrew it. Yeah. Yeah, I actually bought a pump from him not too long ago. When I buy this same day, I think August 28. Wow. He didn't delist this ugly buck tooth that I named Cleetus. I think I heard that in his face. I'll send you a picture of this pump. He's really ugly. He's probably the ugliest one I've ever owned, but he's great. Oh my God, I remember what he yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's got the buck teeth. He's got a little shit dribble on his chin coming out of his mouth. Bald hair doesn't go outside.
Speaker 1:He's alive. Yeah, I mean he might need to touch some grass soon. You know like.
Speaker 2:He needs a lot of things. I like almost half regret buying them. Like I know that, like when I bought him. So like a lot of punks I buy and it's like a two different frames of mind, right Like, is this like grail punk that I'm going to vault and hold forever, or is this a punk that I think is relatively underpriced to market, that I can maybe flip, and Cleetus was clearly at the time underpriced.
Speaker 2:So he falls into that bucket of punks. But I just think he's hilarious. Like there's only four albino buck teeth punks. And it looks weird, right, because like the white skin with the white teeth, it's kind of a little more subtle of a flex, but I still thought he stuck out enough to be a decent value at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he does look like a Cleetus. I mean, you know, yeah, and I see it, yeah, like Danny actually. Yep, there it is. That was originally sold to Danny, yeah, and Mon Mises sold it to Danny.
Speaker 2:So it's like uh, kind of has a interesting provenance path, right Like it was claimed by somebody we know in the community named Shilpixels. They've been pretty active. Um went from Shilpixels to somebody I don't know. That person sold it to Mon Mises Cause Mon Mises loved it Fallen, sold it to Danny and now I have it.
Speaker 1:So you know I'll sell it to him. Yeah, the provenance from Pong Psycho. That's what makes it special.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to like five or 10 years, like you know, if Vaughn is still a prominent figure, danny is a prominent figure, hell, if I'm a prominent figure like, will these continue to, um, like, have anything special about them because of their ownership or will they still be like, uh, you know, oh, it's just going off the rarity or the aesthetic of a punk and it doesn't matter. Right, like, I think, as time goes on, there's going to be more of a provenance premium, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right now I still think it's like so early that it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1:There's not enough history to go off of. You know um it to really tell, because we're kind of building the plane as we fly it. I mean, do you you know? So one cause I read it and this may be, I read, I kind of skim through an article, um, so I I may be I may be completely wrong, but when I was doing some research on the punks, like, what prompted this thought was that, like I read that with punks they're like the, they don't like when you own a punk you don't own commercial rights. Is that true? Yeah, you don't, yeah. So that's that prompted a question.
Speaker 1:I'm, like you know, like I see a lot of things with apes, like there's a lot of like apes making projects with their own apes and other people's apes, you know, because they have commercial rights of that Um, I almost, like I just kind of wonder, I'm curious, like, is that ever going to play a major role in, like, the value of apes over punks? Like if apes will ever become close to overtaking punks because of that commercial, like commercial rights, um, or commercial ownership, um, that to me, like fascinates me because, like it's, it doesn't even have the full rights yet it's still double. I mean probably close, yeah, probably double the floor of apes. Right now, at least, punks are.
Speaker 2:Um, that was a fascinating topic.
Speaker 2:Apes are really weird to me in the sense that like they're still so new, yeah, and for their floor to be like 40 ETH still blows my mind because, like I remember when they minted they made me an honorary ape and they never talked to me about it and they just did it and then said, like here's a DS by eight. And I was like, oh, this is weird. Um, I didn't mint them. Like you know, prank see minted 1500 of them, jimmy minted 500. I'm like, oh, what, 20% of the supplies owned by these two people who you know I'm known for calling out on Twitter for being a little narcissistic. So it was weird to see them get the status they have.
Speaker 2:Um, I didn't really buy in. I bought a few when the floor was like five or seven, um, but it's always weird for me to think, like, how the copyright stuff affects it. I think, what punks? I like them so much because you're just simply buying the picture that the NFT of them. You're not, um, buying any future promises, right, whereas like with the apes, you're buying into the outside of. You know, maybe I can use this for a brand, maybe I could own 28 and have my own TV show. Um, with punks. It was just like oh, like we like the punks.
Speaker 2:Um, there is no like, like, people get mad at our the labs and it is what it is Like. I don't love them or hate them for it. Um, I wish we had the rights. Um, I think a lot of people do, but at the end of the day, I don't think it takes away from punks, um. But yeah, maybe it does give apes a different ceiling because someone makes a board apes show that gets big Other people use their apes. It could be like a snowball effect. We just don't know if we haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah. Yeah, that's actually because I was actually writing a. Um, I actually got into a. Someone in one of the servers I was a part of that like was just had a lot of questions around regulation. It was like it was so very skeptical and I ended up like writing this entire wall about some of the history behind punks and uh and NFTs and I ended up making it an article, um, or like. I ended up publishing an article and like when, before I published it, I'm like, wait, do it, because I put in there, like punks have commercial ownership and I I'm like wait a second.
Speaker 2:Do they know like wait? No, they don't.
Speaker 1:No, they don't. Like you know, before I read it, like it is said this is well, so I deleted that and that was all that's also part of like what makes punks such an interesting use cases. Like they literally have no commercial rights attached to it, but yet they still have this insane value to it, and it just goes to show, like, what people put their trust in, what people value. Like like do people even value commercial rights over just a JPEG? You know, humans are really funny.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't even know what they value. They just copy what other people value. It's like the dynamic desire part of. I see other people want this, so I want this. But I don't know why they wanted. I just know that they want it, so I want it Right.
Speaker 1:I mean shit, like I'm. I like I'm a big Gary V fan and like I, I like I saw how into sports cards he was and I even, like, found some attraction to sports cards and then I, then I realized I didn't you know, I don't really care about those.
Speaker 2:I just care that Gary cares about those.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and I think we're in this interesting part of society where people there is actually no, and I just don't know it's a good thing or a bad thing, or like, if we're just like ahead, like had a curve, like a lot of people don't know how to critically think, a lot of people don't know how to like think for themselves, and I think it's like, or discerning like, or like making the distinction of like. Okay, I actually like this, just because they like it and not because of anything else. I, there's so many people that don't have that awareness that I've noticed today or that I've noticed in the society, you know it's okay to think like that.
Speaker 2:It's just important to know why you think that way and then, when the time comes, when you're holding something that's down 50% or 80%, that you actually have some personal conviction, whatever the fuck you're doing, so that you know you can make the call to like hold on to the asset or buy more, rather than just like oh shit, does Gary still want that sports car? Like, does he still like purple hat punks? Like I see purple hat punks at the floor. Like where's Gary, you know? Like I got caps. We're supposed to have a premium Hubs and bubblegum.
Speaker 2:You know bubblegum too that was from the eights.
Speaker 1:Well, it was really bubblegum from world of women. Yeah, yeah, gary's huge on that, you know. Huge on the bubblegum, huge on the night goddess. I mean night goddess, I can understand that should look so fly, but like the the bubblegum, I never really understood. But yeah, it was that. That to me is just like I think I really realized that like I had a very Like really profound awakening when I was actually first started the job.
Speaker 1:I just Left a few or a couple days ago when I was over in the customer care team and you know, like in call centers, like you have like shift bids, you know like basically, like your performance gives you like priority to like bid on what shift you want, like the more desirable shift and, being new I you had to like get the shit into the stick for the first month and then till at least the next bid was available.
Speaker 1:And I should, you not man like that was the only month I worked there where I didn't hit my bonus. I was like point one away from bonus. So just for showing up on time and doing my job and taking lunch when I was supposed to and my breaks when I was supposed to, I got free reign of whatever shift I wanted, not even hitting bonus, and I'm just like is this, is this the? Is this the bar? You know what I mean? Like showing up and doing a job that I'm contractually obligated to do, that they're gonna pay me for the work I do. I'm like, wow, I'm like I'm gonna make it Like this is this is great? Started to realize okay, this is not it's.
Speaker 2:All I gotta do is this oh okay, like we, we signed a contract.
Speaker 1:There's a job I do, I do it, they pay me for this and I go home like it's, it's really that simple and I, I just tied that into a lot of like, you know, a lot of like what our culture do, like tying into a few other topics, like the shortcut mentality, the, the attitude of like, like, like I can do what I want and not follow rules, and, like you know, still like figure out how to like fuck the system without really putting in the effort, you know, and just the overall. It's not even lack of intelligence, I like, I just like, I just like, I just like. It's not even lack of intelligence, I like. I.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of people say like there is a lack of intelligence, but there's also just a lack of self-awareness, and I think that that is like one of the biggest cruxes of anyone that's Anywhere today. Like it's just, it's not that they're just stupid, it's just that they don't. Some people, some people might be, but like it doesn't like. And then I don't mean in a rude way, but like it's just. There's a lack of like Awareness around it and based on how they grew up, like how they, how they were raised, like what environment they were put in All has a factor in this, but it's just like holy shit, man, like Everyone wants to be different but no one is no. Everyone is too scared to be different at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think with the awareness bit, it doesn't help the Technology we have at our fingertips this day and age, like I think a lot of people don't take time away from technology. I don't think a lot of people meditate. I don't think a lot of people just sit on their own thoughts and think about why they are thinking certain things. I think like most of the time, within five or ten seconds especially younger, like 25 and under people they just plot their phone, they shove some type of stimulus in front of their face, whether it's a Instagram feed or Twitter. And I'm not saying that like I'm not guilty of this, but I remind myself, like I think it's why Wendy walks are so important. It's like you just gotta get out. And like I say that as someone who hosts a lindy walk twitter space, as I got sidewalks.
Speaker 2:I'm fairly fucking hypocrite, but like there's something there about just unplugging from technology and trying to meditate on your own thoughts and think, like, why do I think this way? And like is that cool? Like am I happy with that, or am I just doing it because everybody else I know is doing it and that's what's. Quote, unquote normal Because, like, at the end of the day, this technology is not normal. We've existed for 10,000 plus years and iphone's only been out for 13 years. Um, and like, some people have grown up with half their life in front of a smartphone and it's like that is actually not normal. Um, it might be normal in 2021, but in a grand scope of human Consciousness, it's not normal at all. And then, like, being able to unplug and just think differently is, uh, undertaught skill. I think, this day and age, like I didn't really get into it until, like crypto, ironically, um, and I had a lot of mental.
Speaker 2:Like I'm gonna say I was depressed, but like you know, I wasn't in a great mental spot for a while and uh, being able to meditate and think about like why I think certain things and like you also don't need to be attached to your thoughts.
Speaker 2:Like you have a lot of thoughts that like aren't you right. Like your brain is always just like bringing up shit Um, it's just how brains work. But like, just because your brain brings it up and it's a fucked up thought, like doesn't mean anything. You don't need to like latch on to that thought and like Question your own sanity because you had a bad thought or a negative thought. It's like just more like just letting shit go and knowing like what's important and then having like the confidence in yourself or Kind of like having like an internal locus of control, right, like just knowing that like you can't really be shaken like With external things that happen and like you're proud of the person you are and you've had those conversations with yourself enough to know that you know you're good. Um, yeah, I don't know exactly where I was even going with this, but just more. Just like I think a lot of people just don't take the time to even have like a good mental health conversation with themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean, and I like, I kind of I like the where this is going, because we vibe on a lot of the same. You know, same things and, um, you know, for me, like I didn't just naturally choose to do meditation, but it just so happens to be part of the program of work to stay sober, so nice, so it's just like yeah it's something I do.
Speaker 2:Someone shared with you and that you were able to use to help fight your own struggles. Yeah, and exactly turn out to be a very valuable tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and turns out that self-awareness is the name of the game. It's not Intelligence, it's not this, it's like it's, it's self-awareness, it's empathy, it's kindness, right, like it's. That's really. That's really what it is. And when I started, you know, because I got like I just celebrated eight years and like I've been meditating for the past eight years, and like the fact that it's Like when people started bringing it up about this, like profound thing, I'm like, dude, I literally do this to save my life. Like this is I, like I literally can't not do this. Yeah, I do. It's.
Speaker 1:I'm very clear on my experience at this point in my life that, like I've tried enough ways of not doing the program that I'm in, you know, try doing it literally every other way under the sun.
Speaker 1:And then you know, then I learned trial by fire that it didn't work and that this was really the only option I had. And it sounds in the beginning like it's like, oh, I have to do this, but it's the only way that works and it's provided me a life that's infinitely better than anything I could have ever imagined. Like you know, like when I first got sober off arrow, when it was, like you know, I was 120 pounds and, for context, I'm 6'1. I literally have the wind Blow me away. If I wanted to, um, and I would have never told you eight years later that I like I'd be like talking about digital jpegs, like with with some dude who hosts lindy walks in the twitter space. Um, you know, and like have this like great outlook upon life and and have blessings in so many other areas, like there's no way I could have predicted this shit.
Speaker 1:Um, Not, that's good no no, and it's like because I thought, when getting sober was like I was just gonna smoke a bunch of shitty, like I was gonna smoke marble reds, go to seven meetings a week and play checkers with a bunch of old farts you know what I mean? Um, that's what I thought. Some variety was, yes, uh, and it turned out to be something incredibly more than that, you know.
Speaker 2:I um, I think that's crazy, that, like you, didn't think about meditation until the sobriety, but then it kind of hammered home. Like you know how important this is.
Speaker 1:The yeah, it really is, man, and I'm just like, oh cool, now people are actually now meditation is cool. Now, meditation is like vibe. You know like everyone vibes with meditation. Now there's meditation apps and there's like you know, like I have these like sound. Uh, it's like this tone therapy that I found from actually a podcast conference I went to and this is like like these circular speakers that do like tone therapy for like two minutes at a time. I'm like this is dope man, like your little reading, do a little bit of morning meditation. Going to walk like you know, like for me it's taking my dog out, um, so, I'm just real.
Speaker 1:She's a farrowhound. Um, nice, yeah, yeah, she's about four and a half.
Speaker 2:Nice. So you got her, like you know, halfway through your sobriety. Do you have a? If you don't know, me asking you do you have a dog?
Speaker 1:before then, so More of a one-year effort Okay. Not on my own.
Speaker 2:Um, she's just baby, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I got her at the shelter when she was about, uh, about a year, year and a half, nice Um, and you know she's like, for context, she is like incredibly dog aggressive Um, like we've sent multiple dogs to the hospital. Um, she goes for the neck and she's not she just now. With people, she's great Um, with people, she's phenomenal. But like it's weird to say that like walking her as a meditation but like I have to like actually leave my phone inside when I go walk her just because, like I have to be present with her Um, because she's incredibly intelligent, she's really strong and she really doesn't like other dogs.
Speaker 1:And I live in a and I live in an apartment complex where there are a lot of other dogs, you know, and I just think that people Like that is a form of meditation in and of itself because like I cannot be on my phone. That's actually burned me before Um where she's like yank the leash loose because I was not paying attention and she sensed that Staw an animal and went after it. Um, it's just insane man Uh, but that's like kind of like my little form of meditation, but I I get to do that six times a day because you know she's a 75 pound dog that needs a lot of walks, um, and a lot of reinforcement.
Speaker 2:That's why you're on the lindy walk sock and me, or you do you join them while you're out with the dog, or do you normally join them while you're at home?
Speaker 1:At home, sometimes, I yeah and yeah, just because uh like again, I distracted, yeah, yeah because like, yeah, I mean, you don't need another trip to the animal hospital or the.
Speaker 2:I guess, you don't need to go to the animal hospital, but you have to Call them down. An irate owner who just got right their dog bit and yeah, stressful shit dude.
Speaker 1:It's a traumatic experience even for the owner, like. I don't know and like it's because my dog is one of the sweetest dogs to people and just like seeing that side of her is like it's, it's traumatizing, like she's like this little angel inside the apartment but like, once we walk outside it's like a fucking battleground, um, and it's like all that war against every other animal that has four legs. It's Um. But you know I wouldn't have any other way. You know, I think I wouldn't have it any other way besides that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's your baby girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, she's in my branding, she's in everything I do, like she's in. Like she was literally like Like yeah, yeah, and it's the first dog I've had on my own. But there were, yeah, man, um, and there were thoughts, for it was just like I questioned my own ability to be a dog parent. Like I'm like, is this really right by her? Um, kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier like questioning thoughts, like why we have thoughts, like being aware of these thoughts, like because you know, after the second hospital trip it was a pretty pretty soon one after the other, I'm like man, like am I really competent enough? Um, like am I, is this like the best life for her?
Speaker 1:Like trying to do what's right by her and then like whether it's selfish or not, that just like that competitive drive, I'm like nope, fuck this. Like she's gonna get it, you know, um. And and like we're gonna figure this out, you know, and Sure as shit, we figured it out, you know, or it's we're figuring it out. It's easier to be figuring it out now, um, but I didn't have any conviction before that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't have a dog right now, but I want to get one sometime soon. It was kind of a pipe dream to get one before the pandemic, just because we weren't ever home. We're always at work. Now that I quit that job and work full-time in crypto, it's a lot different, but I miss. Like I grew up with dogs, we would always rescue dogs. My family was really big on not going through a reader but always redeeming, always going to the shelter and saving. Like redeeming one of the dogs, yeah, like thinking of it like a crypto thing. I got redeeming but it was like we always had to save the dogs from the shelter. And now it's like to the point where my wife and I look at stuff on the adoption websites. It's mostly her sending it to me but we think like what's going to be the animal we save? Like we want to get a cat. We have a nine-year-old tabby.
Speaker 2:So we want to get a cat before this guy gets too old and probably want to get a dog, because we even wanted a dog. And this is like the first year of our life where I was able to have her quit her job because I had such a lucky year at crypto and set money aside. It was okay, you quit your job, like we can go travel. It's like okay, well, we don't want to get the dog before we travel because then we got bored while we travel and all that stuff. But I fucking love dogs, man Dude.
Speaker 2:It's a shame when, like you know, you save the dog and you don't know the year of the life the dog had before you saved it. It might have just traumatic experiences that you don't comprehend from their point of view and that's why they snap the feather dogs. But yeah, it's great to hear that. You know, you saw, like went to the shelter and saved one out of it and went to a breeder and, you know, got a custom, every you know thing you wanted. I just started thinking of it. Like going to a breeder is like getting an honorary NFT made for you from the project and then, like going to the adoption place is like you know, minting your own, like you don't know what you're going to get till, you get there and you take them home and you still don't know what you're going to get till. Like you own them and live with them for a while. Right, yeah, I don't know. That's just me thinking about NFTs with everything in life.
Speaker 1:But it's everybody's. You're very accurate, though, like you don't. You know, like we've adopted we even, growing up, you know my family had a very similar like mindset. Like you know, we always adopt and adopt on shop, and the only dog we didn't adopt was actually our neighbor. This wasn't planned, but our neighbor had a litter of six, you know, and it weren't, they weren't, it wasn't intentional, it was kind of just. Like you know, the dogs are vibing with each other and they had a litter of six you know what I mean and they had two runs left and I was like nine years old at the time and they actually couldn't adopt out the last two, so they kept on and then my parents like I was always over there taking care of the pups ever since they had six, and they just like kind of make a gut call, made a gut call and, you know, decided to like, pull the trigger and and adopt him from our neighbor and like that dog though it was wild to see it, because we've always been shelter dogs like either they, you know, from a, like from a bulletin, or like someone rescues a dog, or from a whether it's a personal rescue or a shelter rescue we've always tried to rescue and or we've always have.
Speaker 1:And what was wild about this little Doxon? This little Doxon, a little weiner dog, and he actually lived to be 17 and a half years old, which is like incredibly unheard of. Doxons usually live longer 17 or half or 18 or something like that, something wild. But the way I looked at that perspective was like you know, even though we didn't adopt, like we got to potentially save this dog from not being able to be put in a shelter. Like this dog had absolutely zero care in the fucking world man, like he just had nothing bad happen to him, he just like went about his business.
Speaker 1:You know he, he was. He just like he was busy. You know he always had a motive, he always had an agenda, he was always busy doing something and he just vibed and it was just kind of like I'll still always adopt, but it was just kind of cool to have that experience of like you know, yeah, we didn't adopt, but we got to prevent a dog from one less dog from going there. You know what I mean? He looks like such a good boy. This is actually my current dog. It's actually a girl. So this is Princess Leia. Oh shit.
Speaker 1:It's okay, it happens all the time.
Speaker 2:She looks like a good girl.
Speaker 1:She is a very good girl. She's very, she's very expressive with her personality, as you can see. You know with her paws the way they are. A lot of times her paws are crossed.
Speaker 2:She's a princess. She is a princess. So you knew, you knew.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Does she have a name? When you met her, or did you give her that name?
Speaker 1:I gave her that name.
Speaker 2:Our cat's name was cheese when we picked them up and we're like, yeah, we're not calling you cheese. That's incredible. What did?
Speaker 1:you get, I got an albis. I can only imagine what albis looks like.
Speaker 2:I'll send you a picture. Please do, man.
Speaker 1:That's actually great.
Speaker 2:He's incredible. I mean, he's like a dog to us. He's so affectionate and loving and he's very physically demanding, like with his attention. He's not a standoffish cat, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm going to send some picture in. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:I like that one. I tried to take a picture but I took a screenshot of me taking a picture, but I kind of liked it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I love that. What a personality man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a big baby. This whole time we've been on the call actually like walking around my feet jumping up on my desk and I think my wife will start making dinner, so he ran upstairs. But like he always wants your attention, especially when he knows that, you're like giving it to someone else, so why? Am I not getting this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Very much like a dog. I love that. He's like looking away from the camera when you're taking a picture of like come on, dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he like hides at the bottom of my bookshelf and stares at me.
Speaker 1:Believe it or not, my dog you see how big she is. She tries to hide under the coffee table when it's bath time.
Speaker 2:I'm just like you know you close the bathroom door and fill up the tub and he knows shits about the hippofam.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, she knows, when I take her collar off at its time and she, there's an instant mood shift in her, in her happiness, and yeah you have to give dogs a lot more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Shit like a lot more cleaning.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100 percent.
Speaker 2:And you have to. Yeah, yeah, sorry oh yeah, someone's sort of messing with me. I got distracted here.
Speaker 1:No, you're good man, but yeah, it's like I kind of like the vibe of the animal talks you know, and then like relating it back to NFTs, that was actually pretty dope.
Speaker 1:But yeah, dude, like I to me, you know, just to kind of bring it back full circle man, like like I don't think I've ever like I wanted to get your like kind of like bring it back to like.
Speaker 1:What we were talking about earlier is that, like you know, the a lot of the self governing, a lot of like, the, like the culture that we're creating, or like we're basically cuss, like we're basically cussies of our like we're I don't know I didn't know the right word I'm saying but like we're responsible for our own future, like we're we're creating this and like we're holding firm, like I know I have a bunch of use cases of like how this could like actually change, you know, change the world, like and I have my own version of the metaverse. But like I wanted to like get your take on. Like you know what is the metaverse? Like number one and like how do you see this? Like like playing out to like where it's fully adopt, like when it's like widespread adopted, like what is that? From like a 10,000 foot view. You know, obviously there's a lot of different ways, but I wanted to like get your take on that.
Speaker 2:What do you?
Speaker 1:see this looking like in the future, in like 20 years, like 10 years?
Speaker 2:I think my version of metaverse is different than most people's definitions. I think most people like to define it to be a place where people meet or like peace or people gather where.
Speaker 2:I just look at like the internet in general. Is the metaverse right? Like for me, we're in the metaverse right now. Like you talking to me is in the metaverse. Like I don't want the future where it's like ready player one and Facebook owns the metaverse, right, yeah, like I want it to be kind of just like this completely open, fluid thing that changes depending on the individuals in the conversations. So like where I hope it goes is toward a lot of like open source protocols or open source stuff that everybody knows is like legit and not ran by one organization, but I don't have like a great like definition for it.
Speaker 2:Or I don't like saying like the metaverse is going to be like the central or crypto voxels or a song you know, whatever I like to think that more holistically is like you know, we're all in the metaverse every time we're online, like being plug band online is being in the metaverse.
Speaker 1:I like that? Yeah, I mean, I don't. I don't have a like because I've gone back and forth with the definitions, like when I try to think of, like a ready player, one definition, it's almost overwhelming. Or like understanding like what? What? Quote, unquote, like metaverse, like that people are currently defining it, like with the, with the sandbox and like you know, the voxels, and into central land and like all the other things.
Speaker 1:Like that to me is almost like how do we even choose which one to go in? And that, just to me, it feels like, put it like trying to fit a square peck into a round hole. When I think about that, like it just doesn't fit, it doesn't like it doesn't work. It's cool, it can, to me it can be an element. But like I just view this as a I think it's an overarching thing. Like I view this as like like Web two, web one and Web two were this or that, and like to me, web three is like this and that, you know. Like I just think that it's an and culture versus an or culture, and I don't really think there has to be all this fucking competition to like create, like the space, because then we're just repeating the same behavior that we're trying to get away from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, at the end of the day, right Like we want something that is inclusive and open to everybody and we don't want centralized authority being an arbitrary, that space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think when you boil it down to, that's like part of what I've been trying to help people understand is like when they just see the cash grab and the flipping JPEGs, memes, you know it's just like you got, like there's so much. If you don't believe, like the future, that this thing can build and like it's, it's going to be a, it's going to be tough, it's going to be hard to see through a lot of the shit that we're walking through, because I think there's like so many different views of like 10,000, 5,000, you know down to like you know, right in front of our feet views of how this thing operates and it's incredibly hard to zoom in and zoom out on a constant day in and day out basis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so tiring and that's a mind fuck man.
Speaker 1:But I want to go ahead and start wrapping things up here, man, like you know at least for this podcast it's been we've gone down a lot of rabbit holes and I really, I really like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been like two podcasts in one right, like our first conversation before the recording and then this one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's been a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah man, yeah man. So I always like to like wrap things up with like where you know. I want to want people like know where to find you, like what's the best place to like hit you up or to follow you? You know, follow you whether it's on social media or the internet in general, or the metaverse, I should say, in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you want to follow me, my Twitter is dspydebzbfi. I'm most active on Twitter. I try to host a space about every other day, sometimes most of the time every day. Outside of there, I'm really only active in like this chords. I don't really use any other social media. So follow me on Twitter and then link up with me in this chords.
Speaker 1:Okay, man, that's what I do. And also, you know, just to give you the alternate plug, you know community manager for fractional art or fractional art. So if you want to learn more about that, yeah, so you can always find me in the fractional discord.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm pretty active in there. I'm the most active person in there. Cool man, why do you? Think it's a good time to let you go then All right, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:You got it, brother. Thank you for listening to the Schiller Vaulted podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. As we close out today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite audio platform and leave a five star review to ensure you never miss an episode and to help others discover the vaulted podcast as well. To stay updated on upcoming episodes, as well as our weekly Twitter space schedule, be sure to follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Schiller XYZ. Once again, thank you for tuning in and remember, if you're looking for it art is everywhere and it's up to us to appreciate and explore the emotions it brings to our lives. Until next time, this is Boone signing off.