Embark on a captivating journey with Sofia Garcia, the creative powerhouse merging the worlds of art, technology, and community. Her story illuminates the path from the corridors of art history to the forefront of creative coding, where "ARTXCODE" was born, and the spirit of "Code Art" began nurturing the intricate relationship between non-profits and the art tech landscape.
We discuss the many layers of the digital art revolution, from the explosive growth of generative art, to the intimate tales behind Sofia's chosen CryptoPunk. Our discourse ventures into the trenches of art funds, the fresh terrain of artist representation, and the future trends poised to reshape our engagement with art. We acknowledge the emotional weight of digital assets, reflecting on how they become enmeshed with our online identities, and invite you to ponder the symbiosis between art and life, and the profound emotions they evoke.
Through Sofia's insights and our shared reflections, this episode promises to enrich your understanding of the evolving nexus of art, technology, and human connection.
Sofia Social Media
X (Twitter): https://x.com/sofiagarcia_io
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sofiagarcia
ArtXCode
Website: https://www.artxcode.io/
X (Twitter): https://x.com/artxcode_io
Code Art
Website: https://www.code-art.com/
X (Twitter): https://x.com/codeartorg
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
Embark on a captivating journey with Sofia Garcia, the creative powerhouse merging the worlds of art, technology, and community. Her story illuminates the path from the corridors of art history to the forefront of creative coding, where "ARTXCODE" was born, and the spirit of "Code Art" began nurturing the intricate relationship between non-profits and the art tech landscape.
We discuss the many layers of the digital art revolution, from the explosive growth of generative art, to the intimate tales behind Sofia's chosen CryptoPunk. Our discourse ventures into the trenches of art funds, the fresh terrain of artist representation, and the future trends poised to reshape our engagement with art. We acknowledge the emotional weight of digital assets, reflecting on how they become enmeshed with our online identities, and invite you to ponder the symbiosis between art and life, and the profound emotions they evoke.
Through Sofia's insights and our shared reflections, this episode promises to enrich your understanding of the evolving nexus of art, technology, and human connection.
Sofia Social Media
X (Twitter): https://x.com/sofiagarcia_io
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sofiagarcia
ArtXCode
Website: https://www.artxcode.io/
X (Twitter): https://x.com/artxcode_io
Code Art
Website: https://www.code-art.com/
X (Twitter): https://x.com/codeartorg
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
GM, this is Boone and you're listening to the Shiller Curated Podcast. In this week's episode, we sat down with Sophia Garcia, founder of ArtX Code and is on the board for Artblocks as well as the non-profit organization Code-Artorg. In this episode, we dive into Sophia's love for creative coding, the birth of ArtX Code, the importance of entry points in an art collection, the impact of art funds on the art market and much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and guests my own NFTs discuss. Now let's grab some coffee and dive into this conversation with Sophia. All right, we are live GM. Sophia, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm great. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good. I think we chatted a little bit earlier Having a nice fun day in the excitement of redacted coins on Solana. Got a little work done in addition to that. Got a haircut Doing good. Got the beard trimmed up. After Miami it was looking a little over horrendous so needed to get that done. But yeah, doing great.
Speaker 2:I'm in desperate need of some TLC to my hair, but me and my sisters were joking because we were typically have these blond-ish whatever. We're in recession chic. Right now. We're all just like we've all stopped doing our hair. I'm dying our hair. For the last two years or so we all are a little bit more prunet. We're here for it. We're totally here for it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, whatever that means for you. Now that we are almost officially, maybe back, I feel like a new hair color would be something refreshing, would be good.
Speaker 2:I'm coming back with pink hair. You'll see, you'll see.
Speaker 1:Let's go. New York's only four months away, so I expect to see it. Really great to have you on. I'm so happy that you said yes, thank you, yeah, I primarily. Most of the time I've interviewed or the way I've done this podcast in the beginning was mostly artists, but especially I've grown and I'm full-time here I just really appreciate the amount of people who build the things for us to play on. I saw you. I'm like no, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm okay to learn in public, but I think I first saw you on the Sotheby's video with Vera Mollner and that collaboration with Martin. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, that would make sense. That was a new approach for me to be more on the openly talking about all these different things and being recorded doing so. And we're still in the last year, so that totally makes sense being your first introduction to me and the things that I'm interested in.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you were interested in quite a bit, code being the main one, though Correct Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for almost 10 years now. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's start there 10 years ago. Obviously, I found this space because I like the pictures that are on the code. That was the first thing. It was really the first thing for me to like. Oh, now I have a place to spend cryptocurrency. I didn't understand it before. Pictures were on the blockchain. So take me back. What was your upset? How did you get obsessed with code? I'm very curious about this.
Speaker 2:So my background I am not a mathematician, I was not an engineer in the slightest. I was studying art history. I was working at a gallery, a contemporary Chinese art gallery here in Miami. My dad was always kind of like you know, barking in the background, like you should learn to code, you know, that's just what I'm like, okay, boomer dad, like that's what you're really hearing on your vlogs, sure, sure, sure. But there happened to be this. It happened quite serendipitously. I was kind of realizing that the art world as it was working was not going to be sustainable for me and and you know, being able to support myself in the ways that I wanted to and one of our local colleges.
Speaker 2:I got an email that they were doing kind of this pilot program to. You know it was going to be a free coding class. It was actually based we were going to go into a classroom watch the online course of intensive introduction to computer science from Harvard. This guy, david Maylin, teaches it and then we were going to have a professor in class like answer our questions and we would have TAs to help us with our homework and things like that. And it was free. So I was like you know what, like let me just try this out, why not? And it was just kind of like curious. Got the email and I was like, screw it, I'm going to do it, apply for the interview. They're like, yeah, come on in. And I was like, okay, great. So I started taking this class and I just want to like set the stage again.
Speaker 2:I think the I did not take a calculus class in college. I did like a like math for liberal arts which actually ended up working out a lot because a lot of it was logic. So I step into this class and they start seeing C, which is the programming language that we were learning. I was like what the fuck is this? I was freaking out. But I was like, okay, I'm committed Again it was. I was actually really lucky that this wasn't a class for credit, it was really just something that I'm doing. So you know, I wasn't sitting here stressing like what if I fail this test? Or I was like I'm just going to keep going at it. And so, really quickly I once it kind of started to hit just how much just the fact that code really is the fabric of our modern life was. It was massive, I think beforehand, just being a consumer of what code was building, it was really hard for me to understand or connect with how it was built.
Speaker 2:So let's say I was like on a website and that website wasn't working. I was just like this stupid website that doesn't work. Why doesn't it work? Or you know, going and seeing a cool interactive installation and being like, okay, that just exists Cool.
Speaker 2:It was really hard for me to understand, and so it was just this really big aha moment where it was like, oh my God, someone had to make that like so and this idea of like code really being this like human focused endeavor, and that there were people behind the scenes, and so this thing that was kind of just very abstract, all knowing, became something where I was appreciating people now more so than technology.
Speaker 2:And then, coming from my art history background, I also became like hyper obsessed this idea, like, oh my God, you know, I really, seeing it from this macro level, like the computer hasn't even been around for 100 years. Everything that we're making with it right now is important, there is an importance to it, and so, before actually getting into the like, all of like creative coding, I just became obsessed with how have people been working with the computer to express themselves? And so I had this like my own personal project, like trying to make a timeline of you know, the first softwares that were like, you know, like Photoshop, and like the first computer to make music and you know all these different things. And I'm really lucky, a really dear friend of mine with the Avondado, who happened to be a TA in my class, heard me kind of talking about all of this stuff and he was like, hey, have you heard of processing? And I was like, what is processing? And I watched one tutorial and I was. I became a sicko, like I was just, like I would spend every single day, every single weekend, just sitting there watching tutorials from from Dan Schiffman on YouTube and it was just. It was everything to me. I was. I was just so, so obsessed.
Speaker 2:And after this course, I think my project for you know, I had all these really cool people in my class are making all these really cool like very engineering type final projects and mine was a website where I just wrote, did the history of computer generated art and I call it like computer graphic or something.
Speaker 2:It was a school like timeline sort of thing.
Speaker 2:And you know, after that it was kind of like Okay, what am I going to do with this new knowledge that I have? And I started volunteering at some of the local nonprofits here in Miami, one of them being Code Ella, which is actually code a, yeah, which is more for Latin girls in Little Havana. It was an after school program, but through there I started also volunteering with Girls who Code and I was actually I found this post on my Instagram not too long ago where I was posting about this workshop that I was going to do with Girls who Code and it was talking about the history of computer generated art with these girls and it was really special. I got to talk to them about their Mona. I got to talk to them about you know what it, how long the computer has been around, how artists have been working with code to produce art, introduce them to P five, and it was a really cool experience and that was, like my first time, actually kind of like opening up around that like specific niche of like code based artwork.
Speaker 2:And while I was there, the woman who actually ran the club, amy Renshaw, came up to me and was like I want to talk to you because I have been thinking about starting this nonprofit called Code Art and it would really be focused on teaching young girls how to make art with code. And I was like I'm in, like whatever you need, I am absolutely there. So I quickly joined and helped form that that kind of like founding team as the director of education and I just went crazy setting up the curriculum and, you know, just teaching, teaching workshops. I mean, it was their camp point. Again. My friend, willie, also had a learning center here in Miami. It's no longer open anymore, but it was called 01. And it was kind of this after school program kids were learning about Minecraft and servers. And so he let me have to use the space for free every Sunday and teach my workshops there. And I'm super grateful. Even the parents were like what are you teaching my daughter that she's dragging me out of bed on a Sunday to come learn how to code? And we just had the best time teaching them how to make little sub-portraits and then teaching them how to animate and having it react to audio and have them really kind of build on this week by week and it was just a really special time and that really kind of also helped me cement my knowledge around all of this and during all of this craziness.
Speaker 2:I also started an Instagram account because it was like this is my in-on account called arnexcodeio, and it was like, okay, what do I want to talk about? Let's talk about Arne Code, cool. And I just started finding other people who were interested in this. I was just like who else? Cause I know my friends, especially my friends in Miami, could care less about what I was talking about.
Speaker 2:Even to this day, there's like inside joke, like I'll start talking. They all just are going beep boop, beep, boop boop, like you know, like you know, and it's fine, you know, it's fine. So I just said I was like, okay, let me find some random people online. I'll be anonymous. And I was anonymous for the first like four or five years of Arnexcode and I just started finding people online and I was just always looking through like creative coding, hashtags, like new media and kind of posting tutorials and posting, and it was just like my outlet. It was just my creative outlet, and so that's kind of how it all got started, how I started finding more artists and things like that. But that's kind of like the early days of my obsession with creative coding, which is kind of like to me like get more into front end and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's kind of the early days.
Speaker 1:I'm a big fan of people just like exploding with like excitement around the like what, like how they first got started into something. I feel like I'm also that weirdo, that like anytime I talk about anything that I'm doing here, they're just like cool. Like I mean, is it like does the number go up? Like I'm like sometimes it also goes down.
Speaker 1:So, like what I usually just say is like I just interview artists and builders, you know, and it's, I try to keep it like super baseline, super, super high level. One thing that you mentioned here that has me curious is you started off anonymous and then you recently switched to kind of being more in the public spotlight. Why did you want to stay anonymous in the first place? Or, I guess, what was the thought process? And also, like, what led you to like, want to like not be anonymous anymore?
Speaker 2:So I was anonymous because I did not want to have anyone have any sort of flash judgment around what I was saying or about my thought process.
Speaker 2:I think I was sharing because I was a woman, you know it was, and I think it was something that and I'm really happy that I did do that because, you know, in those early days I would get messages all the time what's up, bro? Hey, dude, like I love what you're doing, like you know all this stuff and everyone just assumed I was a guy and spoke to me kind of as an equal and to this I mean, I really don't have any issues now in this space. But I think it's also like I proved what I was interested in. My content came first. Actually, the first time I ever made a public appearance was in New York in like 2019. And I wouldn't say that was the only time we came public, but it was the first time that I like went out and said I run Artix Code, this.
Speaker 2:These people had reached out to me on Instagram. They realized that I was in New York and they were kind of like hey, again, they thought I was a guy and they were like we wanted it, like we would love to meet you, we'd love to talk about some things that we're thinking about, want to do, maybe like a talk or something. And I was like, okay, cool. So I told them to meet me near my office, because then at that time I was working at JP Morgan as an engineer there and I remember going into this coffee shop and I knew what they looked like. So I tapped on them and they kind of just looked at me like who's this? I was like hi, I'm Sophia. Like I run Artix Code.
Speaker 2:And they were like what, like you were the last person we were expecting to show up here. We were totally expecting a guy. And through that conversation they were like, well, look, we would love to do an event or a talk with you know, women in new media and all this stuff. And I was like, well, I will do this conversation with you guys, but I don't want the content. I would love for you guys to rephrase the name of the talk. I didn't want it to be women in new media, I wanted it to just be like faces of new whatever, just like people in new media. Who cares?
Speaker 2:You know, and it was, and I'm really happy that we did that, because the amount of people who showed up and then afterwards being like it was so cool to come to this event and then just like see a panel of like badass women Maya Mann was on that panel with me I'm forgetting the other girls Jess Knatzer, and just like some really cool artists, you know.
Speaker 2:But it was just a yeah, it was just an interesting point, but it was kind of also like I love that surprise of people just like expecting that what I was posting was just like very male dominated, which is why I love what I do at Code Art so much, kind of breaking that boundary of or that archetype of like when you think about a developer, you kind of assume this guy in a hoodie coding by himself, maybe a little anti-social, and I know that I am the complete opposite of that and I think it may be a better developer for it. You know, my team said JPMorgan, it was really great to be able to be very open and vocal with people and talk to them and work with the marketers and work with the designers and, you know, have those soft skills to match with the hard coding skills.
Speaker 1:That's. I mean I love that. I really love that story, cause, like a lot of times, people associate anonymous with like bad, like it's like. It's like it's just a constant talk about stereotypes, right, like, while we're on this, like while we're on this through line, it's like, you know, the narrative of what we do here is like, well, cryptos just use for money laundering and terrorism and people that are anonymous are like never good and they just like love to you know, they just they're just a bunch of trolls and it's like, while none of that is untrue, necessarily, right, it's like not necessarily untrue, but it's not at the scale that, like most people think there's a lot more people that like do it for very like, real reasons. Like it's just like you don't share your bank account publicly, right, you know it's just like there's just there's just yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, now we have our wallets online.
Speaker 1:That's a whole nother thing. But yeah, right, but there, but like I like how you, just you clearly like there's a clear, distinct advantage, a reason for being anonymous. Cause, like you know, no matter how hard I think and I'm just going to speak for myself here, but I think for most of you we have like we have natural biases and like, sometimes it's intentional, sometimes it's completely, or sometimes it's conscious, sometimes it's completely subconscious and we have no fucking clue how it got there, you know. And so naturally like yeah, like I'm a gamer, you know, like I, like, you know.
Speaker 2:I like.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I will, I have to say, like coding is a little bit new to me, but it is still like everything I like is highly male dominated, and so it what being anonymous stuff like I really liked that. You know you were able to kind of like remove any biases, and that's kind of what I try to tell people is like, look like there is there is a complete removal of bias, and you just look at what people can do, not who they are, yeah, but it sounds like also, you know, there seems a point where it does become like okay to like not be anonymous anymore. It kind of feels like there's like a, there's like a give and take. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think once it came to a point where I was working a lot more with artists, I was showcasing their work, I needed to be the one to talk about it. I it it left online. You know, I think when especially when, when, like the crypto cycle kind of started, like in 2021, in terms of like getting more people around NFTs, it was a lot easier for people to be anonymous and stay honest because no one was leaving the house. And I think now we're seeing that completely shift, because it's not really sustainable. When we're going out to events, like we are in Miami or in New York and we're meeting people and you know the the anonymity side of things, it's just a lot harder. It's actually just like not even that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, worth, it.
Speaker 2:It's beneficial kind of. At this point, you know it's like I want people to know who I am. I want to have this conversation, that you know that I'm the mind behind this. But I think once I started showcasing work and started being kind of more of the and there are plenty of people who still had no idea that I ran Artics Code, but I was still, like you know, being a little bit more open I think it was 2021 when I made it a point to be like okay, I need to tweet more, I need to be on Twitter and I need to tweet more and people need to know that like who, who I and that was really scary for me. I was terrified of Twitter before because I was so scared of trolls. I thought that you know, I was going to post on there and that's instantly someone was going to be like you're an idiot.
Speaker 1:Like I was so scared of all of that.
Speaker 2:But it actually didn't happen. So I was like, okay, cool, and I think now I've been able to, like you know, find my voice a little bit more, talk and be stern and speak my, speak my, my piece when I need to. You know, there are times where I see something that makes me angry or ticks me off and I feel a lot more comfortable being honest and open about it publicly than I definitely did just a few years ago.
Speaker 1:I mean, but also to give yourself a little bit of credit on top of being new, I think 2021 was really hard to like see through the mania like of like what really made us mad? Cause, like when financial is like just way up into the right, like I don't care how hard you try, like you can't see the bullshit. Cause, like, looking back at like Terrain, looking back at FTX, looking back at all this, it's like it was, it's so obvious, you know, but like completely blinded by 25% APY. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, I mean it was, it was. It was really crazy Cause, like I mean 2021, especially because I mean, for context, in 2019 and 2020, I was selling works from these artists for like a couple of hundred dollars to max like two that, like I think I was. I sold works from like Tyler and Dimitri and Helena and Manolo, gambo and Aon and you know these are the no Lloyd, you know, definitely all like under 2,500 Mac, like you know, median price probably being like $700, you know, and to see that happen then to enter 2021 and see the prices just explode, I mean I got scared, I freaked out and I was like what's going on? Like we just went from like I remember the first time someone gave me their credit card to buy a work of Dimitri for $750 and I was looking at my business part at the time Substantius, who now does digital art at Christie's, looking at him, and I was like they gave me the. They're gonna do it.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, oh my God, Like they are actually they're going to send $750 on this artwork.
Speaker 2:I'm freaking out and you know it was. It was amazing. And then just you know, two years later, to see what if his work sell at Sotheby's for $1.5 million was absolutely wild to me. Like I remember the first time I acquired a work from Dimitri and we met at a coffee shop because I was like I don't know this guy, like let me just meet him at this coffee shop, and we ended up talking for hours, being like man, people should know more about generative art. Like what are we gonna do to? Like, you know, we should do meetups or we should do whatever it may be. You know it's a we need to talk about this more.
Speaker 2:And just again, in under two years, to see that just that conversation, the amount of people who were into it just explode, was, I mean, very inspiring. But also like holy shit, what's happening? Like I thought that we had like 10 years, 15 more years of, you know, beating the NFT drum. I actually just posted on Twitter like stupid, from this interview that I did in 2020, where you know I, they asked me about you know, like digital art and stuff, and it was, I was just like you know, I just really think that we'll see a time where people have digital art collections and you know, if you've never heard the term non-fungible token, like check it out, like I think it's really cool. But if you would have told me that six months after that, the people sale was gonna happen and everyone and their mother knew what an NFT was because of you know it was, it was, it was just wild, yeah, yeah, yeah, just craziness all around.
Speaker 1:It was. I mean, there's so much to like. Thank you for like sharing, thank you for sharing all of that Cause like it sounds like I mean and there's a couple of questions I have but just to, I was, I was the class of 2021, I was onboarded through people. You know, like that was, that was me. That was when I first discovered that, like what a left click owner was over a right click saver. That was like when I made that. I'm like oh, that's kind of dope, like that's really cool.
Speaker 2:I like that, I like that.
Speaker 1:Like I don't know why this feels good, but like it feels good, and so that was like my main like thing for coming here was like I don't know what this means, but like it's pretty dope, yeah and yeah. So that's you know, and then the rest is history. But I think that one of the questions that I had here was like of course, we had this parabolic nature of of just I, you know, at home, stemy check school or you know, just absolutely not money being transacted, like how, now that the dust has like kind of settled, you know how did, how do you like how do you think about RTX code right now? Like, because I'm sure, like that changed the trajectory of RTX code in a really big way, oh yeah, yeah. So I would love to kind of know, like today, like maybe, like how did you think of it then and how do you think of it now? And like, how do you think of the future? However, you want to like answer. I know I just asked three different questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean no, no, no. I mean I think that a big foundation of like what I, of my interest and what I've been into, is accepting that not everyone's going to get it, accepting that it was going to take time, and there's like a certain patience that I have with all of it, just like acknowledging like, oh okay, this price might be like this right now. Let's see, you know, I think like 10 year horizons, 20 year horizons, not next week and so in those early days it was like, okay, what can I do on the ground to just talk to people about gendered of art. So I was participating in different fairs, I was putting the artwork up and I felt like those in-person events were really important because I was able to meet people where they were at and talk to them about why I thought code was, you know, a very important medium for us to talk about in the state of the arts At that time.
Speaker 2:Because I had a full-time job. You know I wasn't representing artists in like the official capacity that we are now, but more, you know, I see what you're doing, I want to support you. Come to me when you have any questions. You know it was really like project by project basis, and then they were free to do what they wanted all the time, and so I. When 2021 hit. That was a really big that was just a big moment. I was still JP Morgan by that moment. I had moved over to their blockchain team. I was a technical design strategist for them and their NFT subject matter expert and helping them think about how they might be able to use NFTs within their financial tooling offering their services, their offerings, working with the designers and the developers to make sure what was happening actually made sense.
Speaker 2:I had kind of like practical experience with it, which is a funny tidbit. When I started selling digital art, I did file all my paperwork at JP Morgan, being like, hey, I sell digital art and they were like, okay, cool, we don't care, they, let me do it. It was totally fine, I think. A few years later, it was kind of funny to see like you guys, let me do this. I was not doing anything wrong, I was compliant with everything. But in any case, during that time again 2021, and that sale at Sotheby's I was working a lot with art blocks. I joined their curation board.
Speaker 2:I remember the ringer sale happening and being like, who the hell are all these people buying generative art? Just realizing like, okay, if there's any moment to leave and just go for it. Now's the time I decided to leave JP Morgan the summer of 2021, with really this big emphasis on wanting to put on a massive digital art show for Art Basel in 2020. That was something that I really took as like this is what I need to do, because I was so set up with just seeing. It was really exciting to see all these people come in and love generative art, but it was also equally frustrating to see them not treat it with the same respect and care that I had for it. So I was like, okay, if I see one more artwork in a screen with black bars or just like with wires everywhere, I'm gonna lose my mind. I was like.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna lose my shit. I'm really lucky, especially given the amount of money that was in the ecosystem. I was able to raise close to a million dollars to put on just a blowout exhibition and that was really important to me. It's still one of the proudest moments of my life.
Speaker 2:I think I was burnt out for like a year or so after that, but it was absolutely worth it and kind of really showing people what it looks like to showcase this work with like attention to detail and talking with the artists and showing the many ways in which it can manifest. So it was called the digital in Miami Beach and I swear I'm getting to your question, the answer to your question. But I feel like this is all kind of part of the story and this idea that, like Art Expo has kind of just been like my creative outlet and it's turned into. It's had many lives and so in 2021, that's really what it was Really focused on doing this exhibition, working with artists, selling this artwork, and so when 2022 came around, the dust had settled, the show was over and it was like, okay, who am I? What is?
Speaker 1:Art Expo.
Speaker 2:And you know it was an interesting point. So I started doing a lot of advisory work. To be honest, I was brokering a lot of secondary sales. I was working with different family offices. I was advising for Artblocks. I was kind of the sit-in until Jordan Cantor came in. So I was doing a lot of outside, of being on the curation board. I was on the selection committee so seeing all the works that were coming in to Artblocks, kind of doing mentorships and all this stuff with artists, which was really fun and then but it was kind of still like amorphous. There was no structure like what is Art Expo? You know?
Speaker 2:and that summer I went to London for Brite moments and I was really lucky to stay with sorry, I'm sitting outside, I don't know if you hear that saying that just got really close by. Okay, so I was in London and I happened to be staying with my best friend, christina, and her husband, tony Marinera. And Tony Marinera was a dear friend of mine and I had actually taught him about or kind of explained generated art to him a few years ago. So he had already acquired works from Tyler and all these people and so he was really into it.
Speaker 2:And while I was there he got an email from I don't know if it was Martin or Lars a DM being like hey, man, like you do such a good job showcasing, talking about my work, would you be open to representing me? And he looked at me and he's like yo, I just got this DM. This artist asked to remember. Then we were like man, that's super cool, you should totally consider it I know you're not really happy as your job as an attorney doing like bombs and all this stuff in big law Like you should totally consider it. And he was like yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the next day another artist reached out to him and I think it was Lars.
Speaker 2:This time it was Martin and Lars, basically both reached out to him being like hey, and after the second time he was like yo, and I was like yo, okay, and it was like should we do this under Artics Code? And that was the start of this new iteration of Artics Code and really considering what can I do that is gonna best serve our community and our artists that I love and adore and I had been working with anyway At this time I had already been working with IH Shells kind of unofficially, but for basically after her, after that crazy blowout like two point whatever, million sales, she was kind of like lost and she's, you know, a fellow Athena like generative artist. I was like yo, whatever you need, like I am here to help you, so I would go to. So I was helping her out with all of her sales pretty much right after that. So it wasn't crazy to be like we should start representing these artists and make it official. And luckily now I had my attorney with me, joni, so he could sign like dressing up contracts and things like that, and so that really was the start of the artist code that we see today.
Speaker 2:We now have eight artists on our roster actually soon to be nine if you want some alpha. We just signed Echo 33. We will be announcing that in January. So really excited, so excited to be working with him. So we have nine artists right now and really our job here is to support them, support their career and really do what we do best, which is like have it's twofold really, because there's the business side of it thinking about their strategy, thinking about their releases, thinking about their pricing, the relationships that we have with collectors but there's also the side of the art and something that I think what I love about working with Tony is that he also has amazing taste, and so we can sit there and have critiques with these artists and kind of do this like curatorial conversations with them. Where it's we're doing studio visits, we're looking at their work, and it's not just hey, like you know, obviously you artists have a timing to do whatever they want, but it's not just hey, what do you guys wanna put out? It's, you know, let's actually look at this together and see what we can pull out from here. What actually do we think that there's room for growth? Where do we think that this, actually, you can push the boundaries of what you're building on right now, and that's something that I think really is like a core differentiator between artists, code and others, because we've been doing this for so long. I mean myself especially.
Speaker 2:You know one of like a really fun anecdote that I was just like really happy about. I remember working with Divitri on some prints that he was doing and it just wasn't coming out right, like the print just was. There was something about the print that was just not not working as it should, and I remember going to his studio and sitting there and debugging with him. You know what I mean. Like that is something that I'm you know it was it's fun to be able to sit down with these artists, not only appreciate the visual art that's coming, that's that they're producing, but also being able to like speak their same language and understand how it is that they're building what they're building. And even if I don't understand how cause everyone has their own different, like that I can I can sit there and read through it and figure it out.
Speaker 2:So you know it's we're in this really special moment now that we basically get to support these artists again think through this like business side but also really push them on their artistic endeavors and find really cool opportunities for them, and especially now where generative art does not need any more. You know marketing people understand like generative art as a movement is here, but now it's actually kind of Fending off all the different opportunities that come your way, because artists went from never having any work to now being inundated with All these different people and they're in their DMs and you have no idea who's legit, who's not. And that's where we kind of come into play, where it's like Okay, like, let's take a look at this, like, what, like is this benefit? Do they need you more than you need them?
Speaker 2:You know, sort of thing, yeah, and that's been a lot of the case everyone trying to start a new generative art platform or this and that, and so you know we're really just trying to think long term Support artists. We love experimenting too. So it's not just. You know, we're not very rigid in our ways. We always have to be this way, but it's like you know, hey, maybe you do this because it's a fun experiment, let's test it out. We're not. We're not above that in the slightest.
Speaker 2:I think that's really fun and I and I love the different range of artists that we work with because of all the different Points they are in their careers. And you know I'm not someone who like, why do you like to think of art? Excode is kind of this like elegant, kind of like luxury corner of all of this. That's always kind of been like a guiding light for me when it comes to thinking about generative art and especially digital art on the internet and things like that. You know, I don't think that accessible, like accessibility, is something that needs to be a compromise. I love having different price points. I think I'm doing my job when collectors can come in at price points that make sense for them and be able to grow with the artist you know I think.
Speaker 2:For me it was like devastating once I got priced out of being able to collect, you know, yeah, I was work.
Speaker 1:I think it was right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yeah, all of it. You know it was. It was beforehand. I used to be like oh, this is three hundred dollars, can I pay you a hundred dollars? I'm gonna pay check and a hundred, and it was fine because there's no one else. That's, that's how.
Speaker 2:I learned you know yeah, yeah, yeah and so I really do understand this idea of or I understand, I resonate with the idea that it is Not everything has to sell for a million dollars. It's just not reasonable and I don't think people realize that this is actually one of the first times in history that we have artists actually making a living off their artwork.
Speaker 2:So, and at this scale? Yeah, at this scale, because it's it's. It's one thing to be, you know, in the traditional art world and things like that, but we have artists who have zero representation selling artwork between like five to five thousand dollars. I like five hundred to five thousand dollars, like that is a massive win, and I think people get get Confused with just like the numbers that get thrown around all the time and feel like maybe they're not doing enough and all these things, but like wow, like we are so lucky to be at this moment, and I just so.
Speaker 2:For me, it's always like, alright, everyone, calm, calm down, calm down, we have time. Like there is a there's. We still have a debt. Like you know, I want these artists to be making work and selling their work for decades to come, and so there needs to be a reasonable growth trajectory from there, given we live in a now, this moment, where we have a lot of different hype cycles, we have people that fomo into things, and but my hope for better, for worse, is that the, the frost that we had in 2021.
Speaker 2:I would actually really not like to see that at that at that rate again, because it doesn't seem sustainable to me. That's my own personal opinion. Roast me if you want, but you know, I would love to see artists like just have steady growth in their career In a way that makes sense, that we could actually have people come in and have new collectors come in, because I remember, you know, having conversations with people and being like, oh yeah, well, the price for this artwork is, you know, let's say, seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and they're like how long is this art has been making artwork for? You know? How long, you know, and these are very valid questions like these are because it's it's not enough. I can love the artwork so much, but to put that much money, a hundred thousand dollars, it's a lot of money, you know, and Even 10 to the thousand dollars, a lot of money in this economy.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know when I think all this needs to be to step back and remember that a lot of these artists were hobbyists for a really long time and there's nothing wrong with that, but also, like it hasn't even been like a full five years for a lot of artists who have been minting on on online and Some of these price points just don't make sense if we are actually interested in getting in new collectors, especially from the, like, traditional art side or for wherever you know, just new collectors in general, because I think, I think generative art has a really strong story, has a strong history.
Speaker 2:People are acknowledging that, acknowledging it, but that entry point is very important and so I'm very cognizant of having yeah finding that balance between entry points because I want collectors to feel to have a good experience when they collect an art it like from Artics code, I want them to like. If I ever advise a collector, I want them to come back and be like that was the best decision I ever made. Thank you so much, because it's not looking for a quick flip. They're looking at this, you know and and you can ask a few that have worked with me they're like okay, like the other day I had a culture horn yeah, this is like a really good, yeah, I was like very, very happy about it.
Speaker 2:He did it. I had advised that he he acquired a work from an artist that I didn't even represent. Um, actually it was echo. I didn't even echo 33. I wasn't even representing echo at the time. It was the first time you put something up on on Super rare and I send it to a few collectors being like, hey, like this price point is amazing. This artist is super talented, like you should probably collect this. It makes a lot of sense for what you're doing. And they had passed on it and then ended up becoming obsessed with all their work and buying Ten times more. Their pieces were a lot more expensive than they probably would have if they would have just bought the first one. Like that is the last time I don't listen to your, to your advice, because you know I that that to me, makes me happy finding artists that Again have those price points that make sense for certain collectors that they can come in, support them and grow with them.
Speaker 1:Hmm, you have there, there's like there's it, it's, it's such a, it's such a blessing and, chris, because like there's so much that there's so many different like rabbit holes that we could like dive down and you're like choose one, and I really don't like that. So thank you At the same time, but there there's so much to build on there, because I've had constant conversations. One of my best friends in the space Her name is post-work, she goes by her name is Natasha. She collaged art. I've often talked because she was established before she came in here and we've talked about this.
Speaker 1:Just like ridiculous trajectory that 2021 like provided and like how honestly unrealistic expectations were Totally and even during part of the one of the most, at least personally, one of the most painful parts of the bear market was like Watching both artists you know, primarily artists, but also collectors come to terms. I'm like wow, this was Maybe a little brunt blown out of proportion, right, like like this was like Watching artists that sell sold their art art for five to ten, eighth, can barely sell it for point two or point three. It's like ouch, you know what I mean. Like mm-hmm, that fucking sucks, you know. And like yeah, I think it really like as much good as it's done for people. I think with any movement, you know, regardless these hype cycles, you're gonna see people that win, that do really well, but then you're gonna see people that like just get completely shot in the foot.
Speaker 2:You know um yeah, I mean I've been really grateful for this year. I think you know it is tough To see the price points change, but I think it's also been amazing to let the market recalibrate itself especially. On these artworks and being able to tell artists like look like what happened in 2021 is a bit of an anomaly, like you cannot compare yourself to, because artists come in at different times, you know, and it's like you are not and just kind of beating that drum like you are not a failure because your work isn't selling for 100 E's, like it's just not.
Speaker 1:Ridiculous, it's just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think you know if Want to get controversial too, it's kind of you know this, the understanding like a lot of the, the Different parties that are propping up these Given. We do have individual collectors, but propping up these prices it's not just individual collectors, we also have the funds that have come in and Acquired a lot of different work and I've worked with, but though I do have, I have, you know, my own internal tensions and battles with Fonds as collectors because they're, I think, historically. If we look at art funds, they really haven't worked outside, I mean in the traditional sense like art from, have existed before web 3, and None of them have really been all that crazy successful. I think we're in a different moment. Now there's a lot of different tooling that like they can use around and like organizations of the, of the collections and things like that.
Speaker 2:Well, I know a few of them are experimenting on, but you know we're gonna come to a point where you know, in the five years or whatever it may be, like these funds who bought their work For a certain amount of money, are gonna be looking for someone to buy it more than they bought it for, and who is that buyer gonna be? Is it gonna be another fund? Are we playing hot potato with funds? Are we actually trying to bring in Collectors who can do that? We do have collectors that can buy at these price points, but not at the same capacity.
Speaker 1:You have people pulling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like, not like I mean that's where dows come into play also.
Speaker 2:Which I think is a really interesting where we have pools, you know, this idea of a shared treasury amongst multiple parties, kind of sharing this, this investment, and that makes a lot more sense because no one has to hold it in their house and things like that. They have their shared wallets. But you know it's. It is really interesting to see and I am really curious to see how that plays out. But, yeah, I mean, I, I for me, I love finding these works and actually having them go home to collectors who love the work, who really might not want to sell it for maybe ever, but want to put it in their will, give it to the kids. You know, like it doesn't always like.
Speaker 2:I have a product that I released with an artist, zach Bogd Torv, I think in 2020, maybe it was 2021, I'm not sure, but it's called Sea Glass. I'm really proud of that project because it's only, it's only changed hands once. Only one piece from the collection has been listed and sold and there's something really beautiful about that to me that you know, after one year, it only changed hands once and it went to the funny guys, which to me, is like great because you know they're they're big generative art collectors. And speaking of the funny guys, I just need to give a huge shout out to them because it was the first time I ever went out of my way to go out to a collector and mess with them and be like I don't know who you are, but you have amazing taste.
Speaker 2:Like artists that I am reaching out to to acquire works and they're like, oh well, you know we're ready, like doing a commission for the funny guys, and I was like who the hell is this guy? Like, who is this person? So I have nothing but Rizal Khadab. They have the best taste and I'm just really good at what they do.
Speaker 1:I love that yeah. I love that. This is I mean, and I'm happy we're like talking about like real things because, like I've off you know, like whether it's a hot take or controversial, like I, I kind of like I'm like him over hot takes because it's just like. It just means we're being honest. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's just where like we're saying like what's not being said and I haven't really thought about it at that scale. When it comes to, like, when it comes to funds buying up artists work, like it just doesn't, because, like, if I think about, if I were to start a fund, like just today, the primary objective would be like obviously we need to drive revenue somehow. Like I would look at it like a business, you know, and it just doesn't seem incredibly sustainable. Like it feels good, like it buys a lot of social cloud, like I feel like here's a rabbit hole, yeah.
Speaker 1:Here's a rabbit hole. It's like the intersection of like art and social media, where it's like, okay, you know, I find myself at constant odds of like my social media incentive to tweet something, sometimes maybe for the wrong reasons. Well, like it's, sometimes it becomes really strong and it's like I had to check myself and I'm like why am I tweeting this? Yeah, why am I saying?
Speaker 2:Well, like the, the funds have become a core part of our ecosystem and they actually create, I would say, positive signals for the everyday collector, for better or for worse. I mean, I'll never forget when BVD came in, when he was still working with a Starry Night Capital, and bought one of the dino pals for like a hundred ETH or something like that.
Speaker 2:Like, I mean the floor was maybe three ETH at the time and like that just created of everyone just flooding over, trying and like the market activity went crazy and everyone was pumping and it was just nuts. And we see that time and again where it's like, oh, a fund came in, they bought this for that much, like everyone's celebrating, like look at what they just did with all this money that they've raised. And I'm not saying that they're a net negative, and I know that there are a lot of people who are very passionate about what they're collecting and it's not at all to bash them in the slightest. It's just looking at, like the realities of the situation where, I mean, we have it too with independent collectors who are planning on like exiting at some point. But that is the whole name of the game.
Speaker 2:With a fund, you are giving me money with the intention of making more money and, at this point, using art as the vehicle. And I definitely loosened up on the idea of selling artwork. I think beforehand I was like I'm never selling. I was very furious about it because I saw how it affected artists. I saw them really freak out with the ways they felt like their work was just being tossed around like a ball.
Speaker 2:And it really blessed them because they cared deeply about the work that they're producing. It's not just an investment vehicle for them. This is a part of their being. It is a part of their soul, their creativity, and they're putting it out there. It's a very vulnerable situation to be putting and then to see it kind of just kicked around is tough. So that is a conversation that I've had with a lot of different artists and kind of being like what are your thoughts on secondary and art and people selling it? And so since then, through those conversations, I've opened up more. I've sold pieces when I needed the liquidity and I don't feel guilty about it. There's nothing wrong with taking some money home, of course not. And that's where royalty is also coming to play and we can get into a whole meatball.
Speaker 2:A whole thing about royalties, but I will not go there right now. That's where they really came into play, where it's like no, we're benefiting also from you, like selling the artwork, and so if you're telling it to someone who's happy, then we're all happy. But again, just like to the point, just the idea that you're buying my art really to sell it, and so what are the ramifications of that? What are the implications? We'll see, we will see, we will.
Speaker 1:We will see.
Speaker 2:We will see.
Speaker 1:I want to. There was something that has still stuck with me ever since you were talking about you bringing on, like you kind of starting this new chapter of like representing artists full time. So one thing that's always been like very nebulous to me is, like the life cycle of clients that you bring on. Okay, it's like. So like, number one, you know what is like with all the artists that you represent. The success looked the same. And number two, like, how, like, is there a point where like and this is just complete, like, I just have no fucking clue about any of this? So like, is there a general life cycle for, like artist management where then the artists can maybe be on their own? Or is this kind of like a lifetime type of deal, you know like, where they just like don't want to do anymore? So, like, I'm just like, really, curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, well, let's, let's see about that too. No, I think you know. The idea is that we will be with them long term, I think, but every artist has different needs. Every artist is distinctively unique in their own way. There are some artists that I'm sure would like. I mean we have our own benchmarks, a lot of them being more like soft benchmarks, in the sense that they're not like data driven, like you need to make this much in sales.
Speaker 1:Right, Right Sort of thing.
Speaker 2:It's like how are we working together? Do we feel good about this? Are you, are we all like you know? Are you putting in the same amount of effort as we're putting in? Are you taking the opportunities that we're?
Speaker 1:providing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're providing that, we're that, we're fielding and really running with them and doing it to the best of your ability. You know what I mean, because, at the end of the day, this is a business where all we're, all the artists themselves are their own business days. They are all their own entrepreneurs. We are here to support them. But the partnership needs to make sense, and so I think that's how we look at it. We don't have anyone sign into contracts where, like, you need to work with us for five years and it's all at will, and that goes both ways.
Speaker 2:So, if there ever comes a point where maybe we're not seeing eye to eye or maybe whatever it may be, yeah, maybe the relationship might end, but I think that they would always be kind of more like business focused versus you know, like that side of things. But I mean, my goal is that we are working with our artists for a very long time and we're all happy. I mean, it seems like we're all pretty happy, so I'm not too upset about that. You know, that's one side of it. You know, like what does that life cycle look like? We'll see. But you know I've there are artists that I've worked with and then they go off on their own, or maybe they want more support that we can't provide for them or at least at that time I couldn't provide for them, and things like that, and that's totally fine. I mean, remember, right now it's just Tony and I really leading the charge with these artists. We have some people that are helping us out with content and with a business strategy, but the day to day, like my WhatsApp, is crazy. You know that we have we, we like it's a lot. So you know that's that's another side. But when it comes to thinking about what success looks like for the artists. It's also kind of tailored to each artist and what their goals are, but there are some reoccurring themes that I think we're seeing. So this idea of having institutional support from public, like from the public sector, being museums, I think the museums having that sort of relationships with them has been really awesome.
Speaker 2:Getting our artists finding that balance between working with our Web3 community which is what made these artists successful in the first place while also mending in the storytelling aspect of working with institutions like museums or different, like public galleries or foundations, and allowing them to showcase the or maybe not having to really put so much pressure on selling the artwork and seeing you know what. What is the diversity of our collector base look like? What does you know? Working with seasoned collectors who who genuinely care about the work that is something that we also really think about. There was a really cool experiment that we did earlier this year with Lars Wander and his collectors that we and this was post kind of controversy around the no royalty marketplaces, and so we went out of our way, did some, some researching and found all of his collectors that honored his royalties and we reached out to all of them and we did a private sale amongst all of those collectors, kind of positive reinforcement. We see that you guys are good collectors, we see how you manage your collections and we want to kind of give you the opportunity to acquire these pieces that we think are super cool. And it was a really cool experience.
Speaker 2:And, you know, I would love to be able to kind of do that again, because I really do think of kind of the three pillars of our clientele. It's not just the artists, it's also the collectors and the institutions, because the institutions can only know so much. So a really big part of what we also do is advise institutions and we work when they kind of talk. When we had these conversations where they want to work with our artists, a huge part of what we do is education for them and helping them understand what this is and what this isn't. You know, I've had conversations with curators who just fundamentally do not understand what an NFT is. They don't understand the blockchain, they don't understand a lot of this, and it's totally okay, because I didn't either.
Speaker 1:At one point you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So you know. So having these conversations, quelling their concerns or acknowledging some of their concerns, you know, is a core part of what we do and I think is really important in thinking about the success of our artists, where they're not just popular in Web 3, but really trying to cement their stories into the public narrative that is going to be here for decades or centuries to come. This is what museums do. I remember seeing this really interesting stat I think was presented by Tina Rivers-Ryan around the different public institutions Think about parks and all this stuff and like what's provided by the government and whatnot. And one of the top. The percentage of the amount of trust that we have as a community or as just as a society in museums is the top. It is one of the core tenants of our culture and community and something that we all go in and we acknowledge.
Speaker 2:You go to a museum. You're going to assume everything that you read is true. You know that the curators have done their research. You know that everyone there is really mindful about what is being said, at least now. Whatever Let me not be, I'll say that the nuance, but it doesn't matter there's this idea that that is really important. So for us. It is important for To see our artists get there and I think that's Really important.
Speaker 2:It's not just getting into the most the whales wallet, you know it's like. What does it look like to work with Momo, with the SMK, with a Buffalo AKG and things like that? And yeah, it's been. It's been really cool to see some of that already come to life. You know we've already seen our artists hit those milestones, so it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Totally. I mean in that to me because like I look at like the, I love that you mentioned one of the goals of, like you know, I think it's a pretty common goal to like be in a whales wallet, you know, like it, but but to me, like that always feels very short-sighted, it's like okay, then what?
Speaker 2:You know that there are a lot of people who are doing copy trading. So you're like, you know there's again. There's like two sides of this. Yeah business or multi. There's a. It's a multi-faceted, of course, but you're like, okay, what are the realities of of living in this? Like what three space where everything?
Speaker 2:is pretty public. Yeah, you there. There are signals that everyone's looking for these signals and this collector acquired this work. People are gonna be hype about it and that might really help our Artists in the long, in the long term. So totally.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah yeah, it's, it's super interesting. So so the fact that like and I'm glad you broke down the three pillars of like you know your artists are like the people that you work with, probably the closest, the collectors, probably the next, and then like educating institutions, you know, is it's honestly a really important part because, again, like, until it made sense for me to like want to be involved, I just didn't get it. I wasn't actively opposed to it, but I was just like I'm like Whatever man, I'm like y'all are a bunch of, you know, like whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I remember even when I first got introduced to the idea of like a crypto collectible. I think it was 2018.
Speaker 1:I did hackathon at MIT. Mit had this like creative.
Speaker 2:It was a hacking arts hackathon and I was like, okay, and I saw Emily Shia, who I was like such a fangirl for at that time, go to one, I think in 2017, and I was like Emily, she went to this, I want to do that too. So I did it the next year and the and the whole entire continent was around blockchain and I had already done like. I had a doubled in like Bitcoin hackathon and stuff like that here in Miami especially Miami.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember going to this and seeing John from larval labs kind of explain present crypto punks and I I went through my notes not too long ago and just like understanding, like crypto collectible, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I think the crypto collectible.
Speaker 2:That blew my mind, but it was still so far removes from art to me personally. And when the next year, the following year? So like at that moment, I understood what the crypto punks were. I think that I tried to place a bid on a crypto punk Around that time and they never accepted it. I still watch her from time to time, but you know, whatever this, is before like open see was a thing.
Speaker 2:Anyway, um, the following year I remember we were doing a, an exhibition. It was our first exhibition, um, and that was with Tyler and Dimitri, and Dimitri was doing his first. Like we decided that we were gonna mint One of his works at the end because we had a buyer who was interested. But I remember being very hesitant at the time. I was like, um, are we sure that we want to put this fine?
Speaker 1:artwork.
Speaker 2:Amongst all of these monsters and weird collectibles that are out there like is it? Is it the same? And I think Um Just knowing that, like I had a year of a year or so already kind of like in this crypto space and still being really hesitant to Like engage with it at that moment. So, like I totally understand people being hesitant about everything, I mean to this day when people are asking like, so what, what do you do? I'm like, um, I'm a, I'm an art dealer and then, oh, what kind of art? Um, uh, digital art. And then oh, and like it kind of like, it's like a slow Um feel back, and then I finally get. So, yes, I work at NFTs.
Speaker 2:I'm a center of art and you know it's, it's, it's nuts, you know, and I get that people don't um understand it and I resonate with them. I totally understand why, um, why it all seems so scary and wild. Yeah, I mean even my mom, like when I talked to her.
Speaker 1:But like, first and foremost, like my mom is a lot farther than I would have ever Inticipated like she's got a wallet, she's got art in it, she's like asking there, she's like and and she's like taking a genuine interest in it. But like crypto punks, I don't think we'll ever click for her. Like I just, I like I just don't think that'll ever click. I'm like, yeah, this sold for like 10 million dollars.
Speaker 2:You know, she's like I mean, it's a fucking I would say, one of my, one of my biggest regrets, um, was that year when I did that show with Tyler and Dimitri and I remember meeting um Matt and John from Larva Labs and they were like, well, you, like you've done such a good job here, like we would love to work with you, um, on something. I was like, yeah, I mean that would, that would be great. I think they're super talented, yeah, but every time I did my curations Like an 8-bit punk didn't make sense of my curation.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like I wasn't thinking about it conceptually enough at that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just like how important what they've done totally.
Speaker 2:I'm just like how important what they've done totally was. You know, I was just like. You know, I'm showing these works that kind of like you see them and you think that they were made by hand. Then they were made with code to kind of like bring up that conversation. There was like a huge disconnect between these like aesthetics that I was trying to bring forward Versus the cryptopunks, and so like now I think back like hindsight, is 20, 20, of course I was just like, oh damn it, like I should have.
Speaker 2:I should have done that, but you know you never know you live, you learn, totally like in the end in this space, you learn very fast.
Speaker 1:Like this bit, like I feel, like we, I feel like we speedrun Every part of like human, like any lesson, whether it's financial, whether it's personal. It's like, if you're not a fast learner here, like it's, you're gonna get like washed up. You know, like it's, it's, it's it's so that I think that's been one of the biggest challenges. Uh, for me, like coming in this industry, especially full-time, like how quick you have to pivot number one, you have to be hopelessly addicted to Twitter. Uh, which great I am.
Speaker 1:But like number two, like like, when you see something, the ability in which you act on it has to be insanely fast, and we see a lot of people who don't do that and the people that do, and there's just a huge difference. Right, like it's. And it's almost kind of like I mean, part of me is just really glad that I'm number one Like, just kind of like a workaholic in general and I am around a bunch of the people who are like that as well and creative thinkers. Um, so like, for me it feels almost kind of like a blessing because, like in the beginning, I just didn't understand how to like Like sit on a decision for too long. It's like, let's just like fucking do this now. Like, like this needs to be done, like the data is here, like, why are we sitting on this? Why are we deliberating? Let's fucking do it now. Um, so, in a way, this industry is perfect for me.
Speaker 1:I just kind of had that epiphany in real time with you. So, um, uh, but yeah, the, the, the punk. I got to ask what punk is your dream? Punk, like that was like my first question like which one is your dream?
Speaker 2:I am not gonna give a number because god forbid so, but I will describe her Um, so she is me and I am her um she. So she has brown hair, she has the clown nose. Um and some clown uh makeup. But like she, like, I saw her and I was like, oh my god, like I love you and I need you and my day will come.
Speaker 2:My day will come and she Will be in my wallet. I don't know when. I don't know when, but, like, I have been watching her for years and I want and I like always, always looking um Like a freak of my star cross lovers, um, but, but my day will come um, and she will be behind um so.
Speaker 2:Let's see, but it's just I like I would love nothing more than for my profile picture to be like this clown, totally this clown, because that's how I feel. I feel it was Hong Kong all the time, um. But right now I have known my, my pfp, which is from my amand um, uh, faked to make it Algorithm and it says algorithm baby. But why I love it so much was, um, it's actually not one of the outputs that was in the, in the actual. I think she did like 700 isk outputs for our blocks, but I was working on an essay for her in an upcoming book and I was doing kind of this critique on her code and uh, which was really fun to do, by the way, um kind of like really go outside the, the, the bounds of giving a critique on the visual artwork, but also like that, her functions, how she, how she structured her code and things like that.
Speaker 2:But during that I I was doing a lot of research and she has this website take a team, make it dot lol where the Program is running in real time. You can go now and you can see it.
Speaker 2:And During that time I was just taking screenshots of all these outputs that were cracking me up Like I was just having so much fun and after like the 100th one, like I saw this algorithm baby, and I was like oh my god, and like I took a screenshot and I was just like this I resonate with is way too much. Like I was like I'm obsessed and so I just made it my my Profile picture and I kind of just like love that it's. You can't buy it, no one can buy it. It's just this, this like really awesome moment, which, yeah, it's just like a time stamp in time and also kind of lends into this idea of what she was doing, which was performance and kind of like capturing that performance live and just yeah.
Speaker 2:I've written baby. For now, until I get that, that crypto punk.
Speaker 1:You know, like I'm honestly so, like mine isn't a significant. It's like mine is like, literally, a project called dogs and chains that I bought like back in 2021, but it's like a dog with a microphone and an eith chart and I'm like this is this is like I don't care how it's fucking great and like I feels, even when I changed it to Like a custom Opepe and that someone made for me based off my color palette yeah, I was dope, but like I felt naked without it and it's like okay like this is this is clearly, uh, the the social identity layer of of nfts is like Really, really really interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean because, like you know, you look at it and you're like it's just a fucking profile picture, but it's like it's so much more, it's so much more um well that's how I feel about my uh, my banner, actually my banner.
Speaker 2:I have not changed it since I had my I'm looking at it, since I started my twitter. It um, it's a work from Herbert Franke, um, so it's one of like the earliest, um kind of examples of generative art. He was using an oscillator and long exposure um a photography and, um, it's pretty, it's pretty. One of my favorite tidbits is when he came onto twitter and I looked at his banner. It was the same exact artwork.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, great minds thinking alike, like it was just so fun to see like it was, and so now I'm like I can't change it now, like no, we had the same, we had the same banner. Like it's just so cool. Um, I think about it every now and then, but I'm like I'm just committed to the cause. I've never changed my banner the off-chain provenance.
Speaker 1:Like I mean, we love the on-chain provenance, but like the off-chain provenance is like it kind of matters. There was actually someone in miami what a great friend Um medial on him. He was like when I was talking to him about, uh, like this is just completely sidebar, but it may, it'll it. I was talking about like that ack moment where like he like Sent him, sent a token to the burn address and then they like pulled it back out and they like protect him, um, and he was like web3 needs like an encyclopedia for like off-chain events and I'm like that, like I mean I mean.
Speaker 2:I want to stop. I want, I want to open a hole on a can of worms with that I'm.
Speaker 1:I will stop because, like there's, Maybe maybe a little offline, maybe offline yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I I know that where we are on time and like I could just keep going, so let me. One time I did a Twitch stream with a friend of mine. That was supposed to be an hour, we ended up talking for five hours. Um, I know I'll. Yeah, yeah, we have fun.
Speaker 1:You know we do that just means we'll have to have another conversation. Um, because yeah.
Speaker 1:This is what happened with me, and dies like dies was like episode number five of like this podcast when I was solo and it just we sat there for like four hours. Two hours of it was unrecorded and the other two hours was recorded. I'm just like holy fuck, that was insane. Um, he's the one who had to remind me to like hit the record button. So, uh, you just love moments like this.
Speaker 1:But since, in the spirit of time, since I do, uh, at least at the top of our idea of a soft deadline but or a soft stop, but in the essence of time, you know, you mentioned you're like a five to ten to 20 year thinker, which I think is it's brilliant. It's also incredibly challenging in a space like this, like that, like like this whole year feels like three years. You know, um, time moves and an incredible like incredibly fast here, so so many things happen. Um, we'd love to kind of know if you thought about this in the next let's just do an easier one five years. What is it that you don't see now that you would like to see in five years, at least in the genotivary space specifically?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question, um, and the reason why it's hard to answer is because Everything I've ever thought could happen has happened Um, in, in and then some, so it's like where are we now? Um, you know.
Speaker 2:I think, in five years.
Speaker 2:I think, more than anything, um, it's going to be kind of moving away from this idea of we need traditional art collectors.
Speaker 2:Enough of that. I'm actually just really excited for this new wave of um professionals, collectors that are going to enter the space, that grew up learning how to code, knowing how to code and actually just have a Genuine love and appreciation for what's been happening over the last few years. And I think that's going to be a really special moment, um, when we kind of get this like new wave of um collectors with buying power that Can really connect with what we've all been doing. And I think you know, again, the timelines are so much shorter because before it was, like, you know, we saw the Impressionist and we saw all this of it and it's like decade that almost a hundred years later, and their markets are going absolutely nuts and, like you know, now it's just everything is like so hyper condensed that I could see, like in five years, kind of this new wave of um buyers come in who have grown up kind of just like having to to know.
Speaker 1:What it?
Speaker 2:is that we're all doing and just genuinely appreciate it and kind of see a maturation of the um, of our space, and of collectors and their Beacuses, like you know what I mean. So I think first, like just wanting to acquire the word because they genuinely love it and I still love the saying, I came for the flip, stayed for the art, it's bear. We do have collectors here who genuinely love what they're doing, um, but I'm just curious to see how that, how that evolves and how um, you know, seeing the younger generation come in and build upon it, expand upon it and then also appreciate, like what's been happening.
Speaker 1:I really like that answer. I mean, it's really hard to you know it's something that, like, I often don't think about of like, okay, you know we have an iPad generation of kids. You know we've had people that have never grown up without technology. Like you know, I'm not gonna ask how old you are, live on a podcast, cause I think it's frankly rude, but like I'm an early nineties baby and like I grew up without a phone, you know. So like, okay, okay, cool, all right, we're in the same ballpark. So it's like I know what it's like.
Speaker 2:Like I feel like I've hit the third floor and so I was like is that what they say? That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:We're on the third floor, but it's like, like I understand what it means for this technology to be where it's at Like I lived through the iPhone, we lived through high speed internet and now we've lived through blockchain. But it's like, it's interesting like how, like what the cycles are gonna be like for people who grew up with only an iPhone, who grew up with, you know, knowing what the like without knowing what the world was without the internet, like what happens when they have buying power. I think that's a really fascinating topic. Like I didn't even fucking think about that, so anyway, in the essence of time, Sophia.
Speaker 1:like this has been an absolute treat. Thank you for coming on and spending so much time, and I'm glad like after the 69 different schedules, we found like one that worked.
Speaker 1:This is we did good on us, good on us like we did good. So I'm really happy that we were able to do that. So, just to learn more about you, or for anyone who has to like get in contact with you, or learn a little more about what you're doing with Artix Code, like where should they go first, Ooh, okay, we'll do all the shameless-. All the things.
Speaker 2:So, okay, good, twitter. We'll start off with Twitter Sophia with an F, sophia Garcia, underscore, IO, and then Artix Code, which is at artixcodeio. Then we've got Instagram. Instagram I look at it's kind of my, that is like my finsta for Twitter.
Speaker 2:That's like where I'm not an all professional, but I just have a lot more fun on my Instagram it's like where really my friends follow me, so I'm a little bit more loose there. So that's just Sophia Garcia, no underscores, no IO's. And then Instagram for Artix Code is artixcodeio, which is also our website. And also, just a shameless plug, I'm really excited about two books that are coming out in 2024. One of them is Toshin, the book publisher Toshin. They are doing a book called On NFCs and I wrote the chapter for Generative Art for them.
Speaker 2:So, very, very excited. I recount the history, kind of talk about how we got here, and it's a really fun read. I think it will hopefully have actually turned to an entire book because there was so much that I couldn't cover that I wanted to. And then also, Mya Mann is also releasing a book on Fakutumake and I touched on that essay a little bit earlier. But if you're interested in seeing my writing more on the yeah, my writing on just looking at code as part of the art, you'll be able to read that they are one of five. Not sure what it will be, but it's coming soon. So, yeah, those are my shameless plugs and where you can find me online.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you for that. I'm really happy you shared that because, yeah, I'm just really happy you shared that I've started to get a lot more into reading since I've come into this space. Ironically enough, this space really makes you learn how to read, because if you don't read, you get wrecked. So right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we may have coined that too. Make it wrecked. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah, I like that, I like that.
Speaker 1:We've come up with a few you heard me here first, folks yeah. Totally well. Thank you again so much, sophia. I really again just appreciate it. I'm glad we got to actually meet in Miami before we did this and happy that we got to do this, and I can't fucking wait to give you a hug whenever we see each other next. So yes, Pisces power.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Pisces power. Let's go All right. Well, cool, hang out for a little bit, since this finish is uploading. But again, thanks so much and I hope you have a great night.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you too.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Shiller Curated Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. As we close out today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and leave a five-star review to help ensure you never miss an episode and to help others discover the Curated Podcast as well. To stay updated on our upcoming episodes, as well as our weekly Twitter space schedule, be sure to follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at ShillerXYZ. Once again, thank you for tuning in and remember if you're looking for it. Art is everywhere and it's up to us to appreciate and explore the emotions it brings to our lives. Until next time, this is Boona signing off.