Embark on a voyage with Anocam, a visual artist whose narrative spans from the high-paced finance sector of London to the serene vistas of Japan. This episode peels back the layers of his artistic odyssey, delving into the struggles and triumphs of adapting to compact Japanese living, the delicate balance of work and leisure, and the intricate dance with Japanese culture and artistry.
As we meander through the ever-shifting art landscape, Anocam sheds light on the emergence of NFTs and the uphill battle many creatives have faced in the wake of the pandemic. He opens up about the gritty reality of being a creator, juggling English teaching with nurturing passion projects, and his foray into the digital collectibles market. Our discussion probes the concept of value in both tangible and virtual mediums, the psychological nuances of investment, and the generational divide in digital ownership perceptions. It's an eye-opening perspective on the interplay between technology, creativity, and culture.
The episode culminates with a deep dive into the ways Web3 is transforming branding and storytelling, offering visionaries like Anocam's innovative platforms for true self-expression. His 'Alone in Japan' series is a vivid exploration of Japan's tranquil essence, particularly the timeless allure of Kyoto. As we close the conversation, he reflects on his artistic evolution and his quest to capture Tokyo's psychedelic vibrancy, while navigating his Southeast Asian Londoner identity in Japan's multicultural landscape. Join us for an inspiring dialogue that journeys across continents, creative boundaries, and cultural insights through the lens of a true artist.
Anocam links:
X (Twitter): https://x.com/anocam_
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anocam_/
Art discussed:
A Tokyo Dream: https://superrare.com/artwork-v2/a-tokyo-dream-27744
Alone in Japan (series): https://foundation.app/collection/alone
A Silent Movie (series): https://opensea.io/collection/asilentmovie
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
Embark on a voyage with Anocam, a visual artist whose narrative spans from the high-paced finance sector of London to the serene vistas of Japan. This episode peels back the layers of his artistic odyssey, delving into the struggles and triumphs of adapting to compact Japanese living, the delicate balance of work and leisure, and the intricate dance with Japanese culture and artistry.
As we meander through the ever-shifting art landscape, Anocam sheds light on the emergence of NFTs and the uphill battle many creatives have faced in the wake of the pandemic. He opens up about the gritty reality of being a creator, juggling English teaching with nurturing passion projects, and his foray into the digital collectibles market. Our discussion probes the concept of value in both tangible and virtual mediums, the psychological nuances of investment, and the generational divide in digital ownership perceptions. It's an eye-opening perspective on the interplay between technology, creativity, and culture.
The episode culminates with a deep dive into the ways Web3 is transforming branding and storytelling, offering visionaries like Anocam's innovative platforms for true self-expression. His 'Alone in Japan' series is a vivid exploration of Japan's tranquil essence, particularly the timeless allure of Kyoto. As we close the conversation, he reflects on his artistic evolution and his quest to capture Tokyo's psychedelic vibrancy, while navigating his Southeast Asian Londoner identity in Japan's multicultural landscape. Join us for an inspiring dialogue that journeys across continents, creative boundaries, and cultural insights through the lens of a true artist.
Anocam links:
X (Twitter): https://x.com/anocam_
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anocam_/
Art discussed:
A Tokyo Dream: https://superrare.com/artwork-v2/a-tokyo-dream-27744
Alone in Japan (series): https://foundation.app/collection/alone
A Silent Movie (series): https://opensea.io/collection/asilentmovie
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
GM, this is Boone and you're listening to Vaulted, a web 3 podcast series from the Shiller Archives. This episode was originally recorded on July 11, 2022 in Features and a Camp, a visual artist based in Japan and who is well known for his cyberpunk, visual language and cinematic stills. In this episode, we discuss his journey to becoming a full time resident in Japan, being an artist in a 24 7 global market, the power of solitude, and much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and guests may own NFTs discussed. Now it's time to grab some coffee and dive into this conversation with Anna Cam. All right, gm, anna Cam, how are you man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, good, it's a half 12 in Tokyo and it's super hot. It's summer here now. Basically, yes, we're going into hellish summer soon.
Speaker 1:Dude, I've never been to Japan number one, it's actually on my bucket list. I've been diving way into just personal interest, been diving into a lot of different Japanese culture, I think honestly, well, japanese culture more so, but just Asian culture in general. But I'm kind of a little bit of gravitated towards Japanese culture. One artist I actually had on here in the past was Samantha Kavit. She recently did this. I can't remember what her collection was called, but it echoes in the whispers and it was just like this ode to Japanese style, like old school, early 1900s Japanese style art. I'm like there's something about the art in Japan that just it's so precise and everything just has such a powerful meaning and it's not. There's nothing that's done without intention and like a super thought out intention. That's actually what brought me to you, man. I'm like cool, this guy just like documents Tokyo and documents Japan, documents all these other things and like this is neat, man, but I'm here in Texas, it's actually 1030 at night, so nothing, nothing like doing a little interview, 1030 on a Friday, man, I love what I do, so it's fun to have you on, man. So, no, thanks for having me. Yeah, 100%, man. I'm glad we can make this work.
Speaker 1:And you know I sometimes I have these like boomer moments where I like, cause I grew up in, I'm only 30, but in this space that's considered a boomer and I'm 32. Hell yeah, man. So all these like 18 year olds that are making, like you know, gazillion dollars like building worlds and like flipping it, like I just I have to like block it out sometimes, man. I have to like I cope really hard sometimes when it comes to that, but I'm here in Texas and it's you know. But oh, what I was getting at, man, is that you know I grew, we grew up in dial up internet days where, like you know, cell phones didn't really exist or they kind of existed, but it not, it wasn't mainstream, and you couldn't actually like go on the internet and have your, have your mom on the phone at the same time, and so, like I always have these epiphanies Everyone's on the fact that, like I get to do this and you're literally like entirely across the world. It just actually like blows my mind, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nuts, like yeah, it's just. I know you know what to say, cause I'm I just feel like this was like someone, just like someone to Canada, just like, do you want to have it? Like you know, do you want to set up a meeting or something? I was like like 10 years ago I don't know if I would like this would, how easy this would have been. And nowadays I'm staying up like, oh, I've got a meeting at 2am, I've got a meeting at 4am. Um, like cause I haven't been to plan stupid, what's it called? Time difference?
Speaker 1:But yeah, I'm just like, yeah, cool, yeah, yeah, I mean, why not Like in the fact that you can do this and communicate with people across across the world at any time of the day, and not only just communicate but stream in high quality video, audio, transact, like do all? It's just, it's there's like you used to have to pay like a ridiculous fee just to call somebody overseas and it was just, it was absolutely asinine. Um, so, man, I always have these moments when I get to interview people overseas, cause I'm just like this is just so fucking cool, man, um, and I like the setup there, man, like I like it's super clean, it's super like I enjoy it, man.
Speaker 2:And this cell trust me, it's so empty right now Like I moved into this place like two months ago and so this is like my bedroom, office cell or whatever. So it's like my desk. Like I finally have a desk after three years of living in Japan. Before that, I was working on a kitchen table, um, and when I moved into this place I was we were working off of a box for like a month, like literally like a sing on the floor, just like editing on a on a box. Like I have the jankiest selves for the last three years now.
Speaker 2:And, uh, I finally have a standing desk, like um, and an actual proper chair that I can sit in and, um, like my, my living room over here, like literally I put nothing in it, but it's because I like right now I like it. It's just got my lights up, like my RGB lights and a rug that I bought, and like anytime I get stressed out or whatever, I just go in and just lay on the floor and it's great, that's awesome. Like I'll just put my music on and lay on the floor and then, if I'm feeling a bit like groggy, I'll just put out my kettlebells and just like swing them around for a bit and then my living room is just like my junk room. It is not my junk room, is it? So it's my rec room. That's it. It's my rec room right now.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, man. That's that's I mean. Man. I like I not quite the struggle, but I can understand. Like my my office is in my bedroom still, so it's like I'm still in that. I'm still kind of still in that phase where, like I live in a shoebox and everything is exactly where it needs to be and there's no room for growth. Yeah, you just have to like make what you have. You know what I mean. Um, some of it's to my own detriment, where I could have like saved some money and like gotten a better place and done this. But you know, I like fancy toys and nice things and you know, like that was that was the choice I made and I get to have all the nice things I want. It's just not in a spacious enough spot where I currently want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I get that. I think I think in Japan, most places are the size of a shoebox, so it's like actually some of these places here might be a bit smaller, like a big place here might be smaller than what you're living in right now. Oh, it probably is. Yeah, um, but yeah, I'm like super happy that I get to live in Japan. My initial plan was like I was going to live here for a year. Oh, yeah, um, that was back in 2000 and we went to the mid 2019. Yeah, it moved in 2019. So it was going to 2019 to 2020. Wow, and um, it's been over three years now.
Speaker 1:Wow, and COVID, I'm and I know COVID probably had a little bit to play with that you know where you just couldn't travel anywhere. But was it? Was it more of that? Or was it just kind of like? You kind of like were four years old? Or was it worse to deal with that? Or was it just like you had already been bitten and you never want to live? You didn't want to leave before then.
Speaker 2:So I already didn't, I already knew I went to the state at least a second year. So during that. Then the COVID stuff have like kind of really took off. I would say during that time and like, so Japan had a rule where, even though you're a resident, so I'm like you know, I have like proper visa and everything whatever I'm not like you know, like you know, like I'm not on the hunt or anything, um, but yeah, so, even though you're like, you have your visa, you're a, you have your resident card and everything like that.
Speaker 2:During that first I would say like 18 months or so, um, if you left the country as a foreign resident in Japan, they would tear up your visa. You couldn't come back in. Oh, you're kidding, wow. So that made it more difficult, that made the decision making more difficult in. I didn't really want to travel, to be honest, during that time. Yeah, like I had to. I was like is the pandemic going on? I'm not going to travel, exactly, um, but there was that case of like I kind of want to go back to London just to see everyone for like just that reset of going back home and then come back, yeah, yeah, but that option didn't exist, so kind of just that was the only point during COVID I was like oh man, this, this point sucks, like this specific one. But other than that I was just like yeah.
Speaker 2:I can imagine I love it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. And what sparked, like what sparked the interest to like move there, like what, like, what was that? You know what was that like? So?
Speaker 2:like um. So I'm 30 now and um. I've been a photographer since I was like 20, but we'll just go back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't even give you a chance to like, introduce yourself, man, like we kind of just like rolled, on man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We were just like we have other things to say.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so I started photography back then as freelance. I worked at a fashion magazine and stuff. Then I got into finance for the next five years after that, while still doing freelancing stuff on the side, but full-time finance, um. And then, as I got closer and closer to like 25, 26, um, I kind of found myself like all my finance goals and like what the life goals I thought I had back then, like I was like achieving them but not finding satisfaction in those achievements and I was like and then I got super comfortable with life in London where I was just like I'm making good money, this finance job. I don't need to push myself, I don't need to follow through on this passion project, I don't need to try harder or whatever. Like I can just go to work, hang out with my friends, buy a shit on Amazon, like you know, like and um. So I got super complacent and I don't like that. I personally like I love challenge, like I thrive on challenge.
Speaker 2:And as um got closer to like 25, 26, I think when was it 2000? And 70, 2017. Um, I ended up in hospital for like a week or so and I thought at that time like, um, it was kind of like. So what happened was I got chicken pox for the second time in my life Doesn't that?
Speaker 1:isn't that like not supposed to happen twice, exactly. All right, so it was really bad, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was like a really bad situation. So it was like, um, what happened was the chicken pox was like affecting like my organs and stuff and it started I'm inflaming my heart and um. So the doctors were like, so I was at home and I just like all of a sudden, like I would just start shaking and stuff, so I went to the hospital. They checked out.
Speaker 2:They said yeah, this is like this inflammation going on around inside the body and stuff. So, um, they had to like monitor me for the next two days or whatever, and um, things were getting worse for the first three days or so and they were like you might need heart surgery, like cause, like your. Basically what was happening was my heart was getting inflamed, so my arteries and stuff would just like. They were just like. They were like we have to open these arteries up and stuff. I was like what is going on? And I like I, I I don't understand like what is happening?
Speaker 2:This everything escalated very quickly. Wow, and um, I remember I was messaging my company at the time. Um, like, I was kind of like just keeping them up to date with her. I was signed off from work anyway, but I was just keeping up to date with everything. And then I never got a reply once during that like seven, eight days or whatever. Like I never once got a reply and they've just leave me on red. And um, then when I what's it called? I went to say that I got discharged, that you're like okay. I finally, like things are they're letting me go cause they're saying like it's okay, why don't, I won't need any surgery or anything, because the the inflammation has kind of naturally gone down over this like seven day period or so. Um, so things are okay in there. And then I got discharged, but I was still signed off from work for like another week or so. And um, I remember that was the first time that they messaged me after saying I got discharged, of like so are you coming in tomorrow? I'm like hold up what, I go what.
Speaker 2:And then I decided I'm quitting. Like I, like I'm not doing this, like I'm going to quit. So like as soon as I went back, I quit. Like that's the first thing I did, yeah, call my manager into North conference room. I was like I'm quitting.
Speaker 2:And after that, so that's when I was like I need a real challenge, like I need a proper challenge now. Like I need to get out of London cause I'm not going to grow in London if, if this is what I really want to do, whereas like making a life of doing things I want to do, working with people. I want to work with um, being surrounded by things I want to be surrounded by. Like I need a challenge. That's not London. I know how to live in London. I have to make money in London. I don't have to network all that kind of stuff in London, so I need to get out of there. And when I thought about America, new York and stuff, I really I seriously did think about New York, but I was just like, uh, it's too easy. It's easy in this. It's too easy in the sense of like being able to speak English, got it Okay. Like I wanted to. Like I wanted a real challenge, like I wanted something that would really put me in my like put me outside of my conference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like like learning a new language, right Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, and I thought about places like Hong Kong, you know, in Asian stuff like that, singapore, whatever. But I was like, still, I can lean on English, I don't want to lean on stuff. I want to be so far out of my comfort zone, like as far as possible. That's awesome, man. And then it came to like I was obsessed with like Japanese culture from young anyway. And it's that year, while I was thinking about what should I do and like where should I go and stuff like that, visited Japan and it was like, yep, I can do this, it's Tokyo, it has to be Tokyo.
Speaker 2:So I went back to London, 2018 to 2019. I just saved up my knee, I started studying Japanese and then 2000 February 2019, I moved to Japan. I was like this is somewhere where I will be forced to learn a new language. I will be forced to learn and adjust to like different customs and cultural norms and stuff like that, and then even also even like the challenge of working out how to express my real self in this new language and in this new cultural background and everything like that. And I just keep finding inspiration living in Japan. So, yeah, that was kind of the aim.
Speaker 1:No man. That actually gave me chills and I love how. Like you know, and it sounds like finance was obviously definitely not for you. It was like too boring. You figured it out, you understood the system, you understood how to play the game, like where you were living. But what stuck out to me the most in that story was, like when they asked you the question are you going to come back? It was like that told you literally everything you need to know, like about how they operated and how they, what they expected of you, and it's like exactly that's not what you want to do. It's so.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting when we have those moments where it's just like that's a really big decision to make you know. And it was just like that because you're just like okay, if this is how it's going to go, like fuck being a part of that. You know what I mean. Like that that doesn't sound and I just find it.
Speaker 1:I found it really fascinating that like you're like okay, new York is fun, it's challenge. It'll be challenging to live in New York. You're like no man like let me like move the farthest away from my comfort zone. That's actually humanly possible. And I think what stuck out to me the most man is that it's not just learning a new language is not like. But the cultural norms in Japan have to be so much different than than London, so much different. Like we were talking a little bit about this offline, like everything is just, is so precise and so Like mindful. If that like that, like I feel, like I know it's not true and I know no one place can can be coined with this mission, but it feels like they literally invented mindfulness, like that's what it feels like and I think that's the thing it's like.
Speaker 2:That's another thing, that Living here and stuff you have to adjust to and work around, not necessarily that everything is mindful and efficient stuff, because it's right, right, obviously, but so it's adjusting to that image and and how to communicate around it. Because, especially in like business situations and stuff where in English, so yes, yeah, particularly the states and the UK and whatnot you know, if someone says Someone asks you to do something, you can't do it, you pretty much say no and you just give them a reason afterwards and it's like politely accepted, like it's there's nothing wrong with it. Like I've got messages from managers around like we're all asking something and all they'll say is yes and just sign off with their name. Oh, that I'm just like yeah, go go, I need it, let's move on.
Speaker 2:But you can't do that in Japanese. Like you just can't do that in Japanese business culture. There is like this very passive, is very long-winded, and stuff like that where you're beating around the bush, where and no is actually you're saying kind of like it's kind of difficult to do that, but this and that just just say no, wow, wow. And so it's adjusting to those not only like Like differences in language is also differences in thinking. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm. I mean that's. That's super interesting. Because like Now I wonder if they're like, if you like dive in the rabbit hole, like if there's something about the word, no, that's just like Super not okay. I feel like it has some sort of a deeper meaning because like that to me sounds like the dream of anyone who's too scared to think like you know someone like me who cares about what they think. I'm like damn, that actually sounds kind of great. You know they just never, they're not too direct. I can kind of we can kind of beat around the bush of being really direct, because it's kind of uncomfortable, even though it's always the right thing to do is to be as direct as possible. But I'm like damn, like that actually sounds kind of good.
Speaker 2:So like feel just you should move out here, then you should move out here, work for a Japanese company. I thrive.
Speaker 1:I thrive. I'm the king of doing that, like I. You know, as I, as I get older and I'm starting to grow more for myself, I'm learning to be more direct, and that's it's typically a big, it's a big challenge for me to do that. But that's interesting, man, when it comes to is that so I got? So I want to do a little compare and contrast, like when it comes to like London and Japan, like what is that the biggest, like cultural difference that took you the longest to get used to, or like what was probably like the one thing that took you the longest.
Speaker 2:The thing that took me the longest, but I Think it's still differences in ways of thinking, where People have differences in ways of communicating. I would say where I'm at the point in my Japanese where I can communicate like my Genuine self in Japanese now, like after like just over three years or whatever. So I feel like the person I am in speaking English. I can communicate that same person in Japanese. That got it. So I can outwardly express that.
Speaker 2:But when it comes, there's certain aspects of it, especially like Japanese, that honne and tatemai. Tatemai being it's like your front-facing, it's like just like you say things to make the other person happy, and honne is like the real version of you, where I don't have a tatemai, I'm just honnye all the time, like I'm just like this is me, like hey guys, kind of thing. And and it's maybe getting used to that tatemai kind of aspect of Japanese culture, like when you get into circles or you make friends, sometimes you, sometimes you, it's really hard to tell which version of them you're talking to. Interesting, okay, and that's maybe been the most Challenging thing to get used to, because I spent the first 26, 27 years of my life where it's Like you, you kind of you, like in London, you kind of know, when someone's bullshitting you like you can vibe, check them, and there's like, yeah, I don't like, you like the vibe, so if I'm not gonna hang around with you, anyway, right, but I hear you just can't tell that.
Speaker 2:You literally can't tell, okay, like, like. Sometimes someone's gonna be like, hey, let's go for drinks, and me I'm sorry, yeah, let's go right, like, but then actually they don't mean it, it's just, it's just like. That's incredibly confusing. You know lip service, yeah, and I'm just like, why would you say that I like I don't need the invitation.
Speaker 1:It seems like a waste of time to do that. Right, this is it's like yeah, yeah, interesting man. I would have never like I'm actually learning so much from this and you know, going going to like, going like your job. So it's like when you, when you quit, did you immediately like it? And I know I know you mentioned a little about what you do now like you do a little marketing here, like, but was that like an immediate? Did you like how long did you take off when you went to Japan? Like when you like how long, how long did you just like take off work for?
Speaker 2:So I May 2017, I quit finance and After that, I went pretty much full-time freelance. Just right, that's right. I'm not, I'm not gonna have, I'm not gonna have a full time, I'm not gonna have a permanent job, right like until I find why I want and and so after that, I was doing like quad photography jobs and like video jobs around London. It's just like there's a very strong network of like camera people over there and like everyone's in, like everyone knows everyone Got it. So that's kind of also what made life complacent in London. Everyone knows everyone. So it's like you need Help or a job or a gig or something like someone can put you on. Yeah, which I wanted to get away from.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean no, no, you're like wanted to be out of your comfort zone, man like that, like yeah, 100%, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So from May 2017 until January 2018. I was like out of the office, basically, yeah, and I went and I went to Japan September 2017 to October 2017. That one month got it, got it. And that was a month I was like yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is going to Tokyo. Yep, this is permanent. That's awesome, man. Like yeah, so I guess.
Speaker 1:So I got like, when it comes to you know, it's interesting there's actually a point you were talking about there and it's like we were talking about this before like everyone and what it's like, the super kind of like vibrant fishbowl. You know that you mentioned and Everyone knows everyone, but you're actually across the entire world. You know what I mean. Like I think that's the main difference between like everyone, knowing everyone, like locally and like that's got to be. I'm sure that is definitely a different feeling. Like I can't say I have that luxury here. But you know, like within this community it's, it's just like this, this, yeah, again like a fishbowl, where everybody knows everyone, but it's a, it's a cultural myth, like melting pot. You know what I mean. It's just something now, some of it I'd rather not see and that's okay. But like you know it's it's the really valuable part of like a free market and like what people can actually create, but it's centered around this like idea of, again, like everything that brings us joy and makes us happy and up.
Speaker 1:I'll go on a little bit of a rant here or a little bit of a tangent here is that I think what stuck in here is that I think what stuck out to me the most right when I came in here was that I Didn't realize how much I undervalued art and what, like, my definition of art actually was. And I'll like I think that's to this another episode, but I like to repeat things a bunch of times. It's like when I started, like when I came in here, all of a sudden I looked at my desk and I looked at my Keyboard and I looked at my chair and look at my microphone. I'm like there was a designer behind all of this. There were design choices that were made, there was thoughtfulness that was put into this. It wasn't by no one just like slaps us together. Like there was a lot of create, like there was a lot of creative minds behind this. And I just remember and I and I started my journey in content creation.
Speaker 1:I started, like, in the eSports realm. I was, you know, twitch streaming and then interviews of people in the eSports industry and you know like that's a really tough industry to break out in and just the creative industry as a whole. If you actually want to like, go Do something you enjoy to do, like enjoy doing number one. I don't ever believe it should be like the easiest road possible, but it seemed like the chips were stacked so so, so against people you know Like, and they still, yeah, are to be honest, and that's part of the cool.
Speaker 1:The joy of storytelling, in my opinion, is that you know, if you're just persistent at something you enjoy, you'll reap the benefits eventually. And I think the the biggest epiphany moment was that this is actually a shift in not necessarily like creators versus corporations, but more of like a we set the, we set the rules on the playing field. Now, like it's like we set the rules and now we invite you to come play and if we don't like what you have to offer, the market's gonna tell you exactly just that. You know what I mean. And so I just think that that was one of the coolest things were like I'm like holy, like, holy shit man. Like there's, there's people behind this work.
Speaker 1:Photography especially like I've said this a bunch times before too is that we were so spoiled with photography and we're able to like just save it on her, save it on our phone, or like save it on our computer, or like take a picture of it. But until I started talking to these talking, you know, talking to photographers and artists in general like I just couldn't Like there was a whole side of the story that I just completely missed, and I'm like these people sometimes will go six months and not get the right shot at the certain location, and then how much longer are they spending editing this, what story are they trying to tell and like, and how much of their work gets pirated and all this I'm just like my word, like this feels like people are finally getting the bags that they so rightfully deserve. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. Like okay, even even as someone who's just keeps making stuff, I didn't understand that I had to rethink my ideas on values of like art and stuff. Like even myself when I go into other. It was especially at the beginning. I didn't get it. Like I didn't understand the difference in value, like the Just, like the concept of value within this space. Like I didn't understand it, especially with, like seeing punks and people and this and some are going at this price, some are I'm gonna demand that price and why this, why that? Like I just didn't get it. And it wasn't until, like I started thinking about Pokemon cards. I was like, hey, this didn't value to anyone but me and I was like, oh wait, this makes a bit more sense now and Then it's.
Speaker 2:I think it was after experiencing myself of like there was a bidding war one of my early pieces between Veritas and NorCal and I was just losing my mind. I was like what's happening? Like I, I don't understand this, but it was. It was that confidence, like boost I needed, needed To like really understand value. I think where I was like yo, this, like this can be normal, not necessarily like this price or bidding wars and stuff like, but, as in the sense of like this, can this value concept can be viewed as normal, like it's not a weird thing, it is something that people can have. It's just the. I Guess the metrics are just different. People are valuing different things within this space and I Just remember where, like you know you said like of Photographers and whoever, whatever artists like not being valued and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I remember when, so, because of COVID, life in Japan got really difficult. I was teaching English. At that time is my first two years in Japan. I was teaching English full-time, our freelance. In addition to that, where, so, just like when someone would come with a project.
Speaker 2:I would like yeah let's go, let's do this, whatever, so I would. And then all the networking stuff. I'm in a different time zone, such wouldn't be, and so that's an additional like 20 to 30 hours a week. For my first two years in Japan, I was like 60 70 hour weeks, jesus man. And I remember what is during COVID where my English, so I had to be present like all that time, so the 40 hours I would be teaching English, but my lessons went down by like half and At one point, even more than that.
Speaker 2:So I remember there was a period of like three, four months or so, even longer, basically a second half of 2020, I think when I was making my six hundred dollars a month and that's just rent, like that's like, and I was like I Don't know what to do. I was like stressed out. I was like I was trying to add have to like can I eat now or should I eat later? Like what works better, and I was still just pumping our content, like I was still making stuff because that helped me get through, but also it's like I guess my timeline doesn't think about the other stuff I have to deal with. No, or the artist had to deal with inputting while putting that thing out, whatever it might be, and so at that time I was just like still working with stuff. I was even working on some projects for free, just because they were just still fun to do. So I was like, working on them, did some music videos and what's it called Um, what was it?
Speaker 1:where was that music videos you're, you're gonna meet, you're doing something? Yeah, I was working on, I was.
Speaker 2:I was working on stuff For free and one, that's it. So when I first, like started thinking about NFTs, I was no, yes. At the same time I started streaming, as I was streaming twice a week from like 10 pm 10 11 pm Japan time till. At truth, we're resharing how I did so. People keep asking me. People would keep asking me how did like you know how do you do this? How'd you get that color? I was like I'll just yeah, yeah, then like I can answer in real time.
Speaker 2:So I had like a little twitch community there and then I would also do IRL stream. So when I would be walking out with my camera, I would just like strap a camera here and I would be streaming on twitch. Got it? Yeah, doing like there's walking around Japan stuff, but like all of me shooting so people get to see what I do and who I hang out with the stuff very cool. So I was doing that.
Speaker 2:I was like investing still loads of time and all of this, but I was just like making nothing during that COVID period. Then it came up to hey, I'm very interested in NFTs, I'm gonna explore this further and I was very vocal and public about like my Thought process in the positives and the negatives and stuff like that on Twitter, like the environment, this and that, especially that was like a big thing back then. So it got to where I was still struggling Financially at that time and it got to the point where I might have to go back to London. Hmm, like I might have to just leave Japan because I can't, if this continues, I can't for it to survive, I guess, anymore, and NFTs happen and all of a sudden I was like, okay, I made this kind of, I did this tweet of like okay, I am going to mean something.
Speaker 2:Like I decided, like I weighed up all the options, weighed up everything and I'm going to mean something. And then I got so many messages back of like you should do this, do this, do that. And I'm just like, okay, guys, look, look, look, instead of telling me not to do this, give me an option that will help me survive. Right, and I'm all ears, like I'm literally, I will do anything, because all I'm trying to do when I was live, I'm not even like I don't, I don't want to be rich, I just want to eat, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want to eat, I don't want to have to think about when I'm eating this rice ball. And Nobody said, nobody could reply, nobody can say anything. Yeah, and I was just like yeah, so this is where, like you, a lot of you are here just for the free content, right, I guess, and it's, it's not about you how I end up making something, or if I'm okay or if I'm surviving. Even like if I vanished, a lot of them wouldn't even notice. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:And then I was like, no, I'm just making stuff for myself and I'm like what is this? And not to say I wasn't before, but it was part of my thinking, or like because, like, I'm big in marketing and stuff like that, like it's part of my thought process. I was like I got to post stuff every day, keep that marketing funnels going and stuff like that. I was like, no, I can pull back a bit, I can just like focus on myself for a bit and after getting into NFTs, and like finding some initial success, like early on, thanks to, like, these collectors that really believed in me at that time, and like still hanging around, I'm very attached to NorCal. I still talk to them all to dad. Yeah, but it's like I was able to just pay off so much debt and like, just like, get above, like being able to tread on water again, right.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, not drowning. You're on the opposite side of money, you know like, yeah, yeah 100% and that's part of this energy.
Speaker 2:There is like it having that experience really did change my ideas on my value and stuff, like how I'm valuing things and how I'm valuing myself and how I'm valuing other artists and their work and stuff, and then also the conversation that I have with other artists after that within the NFTs space and outside it. Even like, just like the conversation it really affected how I you know, just like or talking when we're talking about Instagram and this other other web, two stuff. It changed like my narrative of like, talking about those things.
Speaker 1:No, I'm happy you shared that because it's like when, yeah, when I for like, because I think for me it was a lot of the concept of, I think, actually living in an apartment where I just bought too much and it feel like my apartment is actually a lot bigger than a shoebox but I just have so many things in here that there's only like three like pass across my apartment without running into something. And I think that actually, believe it or not, played a role in me being obsessed with digital collectibles. Like because I literally I don't have room, Like I don't, I can't put shit anywhere else. Like my closet is this, looks like a bomb went off in it, you know. Like my shelving here like it's disorganized at best, you know, and like I have like three paths to go in my apartment and now I just put all my physical art up on the wall and I have like one spot to put something else and it would look really awkward. So it's like I think that actually, I mean that's just one thing, but that actually played a role in like.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, I actually enjoy digital collectibles and feeding on kind of like that Pokemon. Like opening those packs as a kid, I'm like what am I going to get? Yeah, what am I going to get is going to you know, but the one thing that I I never got and I'm on the on Pokemon I never got a Charizard and I will never. I have like 15. I will never like. Not be angry at that Like I will, for because I had friends that got like not only get Charizard, but they got first edition Charizard and they got like the Japanese holographic Charizard.
Speaker 1:So I'm like what did I do in life to like, not get a Charizard, like I was so butthurt for the longest time, man, and I'm still like I will, I will carry that to my grave man. That was like my, my worst, like I mean that just goes to show you I had a great childhood that was like. That was like what devastated me the most.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I know that feeling. I really, like everyone that came came out here in 2017. I bought like 15 Charizard oh my god, like I have literally every card, pokemon card store, any trading card store. I found I was like I'm buying like from this store and I'll just buy different armor because I still. I still had that obsession. Yeah, like of this is the grail piece.
Speaker 1:Like you, know, this is the girl piece.
Speaker 2:That's right, and if you can get that, you know, first edition box at one where it's like $8,000 or something, right. I literally saw one a while ago, like because I still every now and then I still go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course, stores, because I like them.
Speaker 2:It's fun. It's fun to just look at the cards, and every now and then, we're like should I put this by this card for $100? Should I? I don't know, it looks really good. I don't know why I do it, though, and then I'm just like oh, am I talking about NFTs or Pokemon cards? And yeah, every now and then, I still go have a look, and even Billy, billy Dean even he mentioned like I want one. I was like I'll try go have, I'll try to go find one for you, and last time I went to look, the cheapest one was $8,000. Oh, that's shit. Wow, wow, yeah, it's. The price has gone up since 2017. Well, COVID.
Speaker 1:I mean COVID accelerated like because what's really interesting and I and I'll just preface this that like this was definitely not an article that I did a whole lot of research on. I was a headline article reader on this one, but there was this headline that I read, or this headline that I read is that when it talks when markets are down and when people are not being able to do things, and COVID was like obviously an audible that we were not ready for and that was like that was just something we were not prepared for and so it was almost like this in hyperdrive. But when things are really bad and, like you know, people can't go do anything or markets are bad, people turned into nostalgic collectibles. Like the amount of money spent in frivolous, useful, like useless, like actually useless items, like for like like actually skyrockets, you know, and it's not necessarily that it's useless, but it's like it's not productive, it's not, it's it's it fits the soul more than it does actual society. So I mean now you could argue, you know if your soul is vet yet, but you know what I mean like just for all intents and purposes, yeah, it's frivolous products that provide no real value to the world, like that always skyrocket in value. So it's like I feel like Pokemon. That sounds like a punjish game. Exactly Everything's a punjish game. If you look at it close enough, man Like it's. I think you know it's really funny man.
Speaker 1:When I was growing up, I remember when I was like my dad was like watching the stocks on TV and like he's not a huge trader, but you know they had an invest finance, like you know, finance advisor, and they invest in stocks and they still do. But I just remember asking him like well, how does there, like, where does the money come from? You know what I mean. And I remember asking him that question and he couldn't really answer me. Like he talked about like all these things that happen, but I'm like but where does it come from? And like, and again.
Speaker 1:But now that I'm older, you know it's a lot of it's just a Ponzi, you know and like. What I'm also learning is that this you know generations prior, you know every generation rejects the previous generations Ponzi and I think that's like the really interesting part of like why there's so much divide here, is that, like you know, like it's not that crypto, it's not that stocks aren't a Ponzi and it's not that crypto isn't a Ponzi, you know, if you really look at it close enough, it's just which one do we want to put our faith in? Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just like you know, the magic money tree has become magic internet money. It's just a different, different kind of magic, right, and yeah, you know, sometimes I get this like kind of talk about NFT is a bubble. I'm like, so what if it is right? Right, I'm just like being on it was just like some people. So this comes back. For me, part of it is like where entity is crypto, like there'll be comments about it being like a bubble and I'm just like, okay, if, if me, so I'm.
Speaker 2:I still say I'm fairly privileged in this space, like in the, what I've been able to do in this last year. I am on the side where it's majority of things have gone my way, like I'm on the positive, so I can recognize how privileged I've been in my journey, and so some of my thinking might be provisioned that sense. But then I think about when some people, some people, make these comments of like, oh, entities, crypto being a bubble and stuff, and I'm just like, hey, look, this is given some people an opportunity to make that extra 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 dollars a month and somewhere like the Philippines or whatever, that extra 500 dollars a month that from play axes or start from trading so and so, making an extra 300 dollars a month or whatever. Often that's a full time salary in certain places. And I'm just like, even if it's temporary, even if that's a year, you can make a difference to your life or you can just feed your family well for a year.
Speaker 2:And like, so am I say, are you saying that they should? That year shouldn't exist, basically, kind of thing. Right, I'm just like there's certain like opinions that come from such a point of privilege and like the what I. Obviously the one I experienced was like okay, being an artist, don't get involved in NFTs. I'm just like okay, you people make your money, I don't, I'm just from broke grade, I don't know what to do, I'm about to, I'm about to die, so yeah, so people often misspout opinions from like points of privilege when it comes to 100% puns and bubbles and this.
Speaker 1:That in the way I'm going to dive in a little bit deeper is that like the way that what the feel like so I'm, you know, I work up like I live a spiritual life, or do my best to like live that way, and like I have a practice that I do on a daily, daily disciplines, daily regiments, and I'm just like I'm never, like I'm never subscribed to the belief that, like you know, like this universe and this path does not want the absolute best for me and I always, I think about them, like okay, I know how I feel and I know the opportunity that I'm experiencing this and I know how and I watch how much I've learned, just from just from participating man, like I've learned more about finance in a year than I have in the entire 29 years leading up to this space. Like I'm still like I'm still very novice when it comes to, like you know any sort of stocks or crypto. You know charts. I can I can barely read those, but I've learned more in the past year and I've learned more about market behavior. I've learned more about psychology. You know how humans work and the effects of like um, you know mimetic desire, and I've learned about all these things in a year and I said, okay, there's no way, even and even if this is a bubble.
Speaker 1:I just don't really subscribe to that belief that Like I've learned way too much and there's no way I would be on this journey if this was to actually just crash and burn and fall and and like go to zero tomorrow. You know what I mean. And now I could be wrong. That's just my personal belief, you know. But that's that's the way I look at it. I'm like, okay, this is the real opportunity I've always wanted. I didn't, I couldn't predict this. There's no way I could have, like forced, first seen this happening. I said, this is no accident. And it turns out there's a lot of other people that believe the same thing that I do, and there's a lot of other people who see the opportunity and they see the life changing moments happening, that they believe this too, and there's just like this strange unspoken agreement that we all have with each other that like this is something, this is something you know, and we can actually put our faith in this. And so it's.
Speaker 1:It's amazing what happens when you put like a trustless system in place All of a sudden, when you don't have to think about that layer of trust as a human that much more creativity can flourish, you know, and it's it's, it's it's fascinating to watch that behavior happen over time. It's, you know, we don't need Like, like the, the money layer can be settled way easier now and I think people don't really like the people that are outside. They don't, they don't understand a lot of that and that's okay. I didn't understand it till I got here, um, but I think this sparked and interested me because I felt like web 2 was the best internet was gonna get and content creation, that's.
Speaker 1:That was like the peak of like our civilization, of how this world was gonna work, and it was like this severe. It was almost like a mild depression. You know where it was like damn, like this is it? And I, you know, like I know what I need to do to become like, to make it in the space, but I'm not really willing to do that, um, and I said, surely there's something different. And so that's like where this, these doors just like flung wide open. I'm like this is an open canvas, things are all, things are fully public, they're decentralized, they can't be erased. Authenticity is going to be the most important kpi In the entire world in this space. Yeah, and that is literally part of, like, all of my branding decisions and all my logos and everything that went into my name. Literally, that was the core value when I started back in 2017. I'm like, finally right, like a brand that I can grow authentically, that's public, that people will recognize and can support in a meaningful way. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that that's. That is one of the main reasons why I just Was obsessed with um web 3 from the beginning, where it was the fact that it was story driven at the beginning.
Speaker 2:I didn't quite understand it because I was still stuck in a web 2 mind. You know. It's just like okay, your brand is a brand, but people don't care so much as long as you're posting stuff, right, you're putting stuff out. But then coming in here and then it's oh, no, it's more about who I am, my story and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And at the beginning it was kind of weird. I was just like, well, how do I, how do I pivot to this? And then I was like, oh, I can actually Genuinely just be myself and like why I created my name and brand? Yes, all of those things, I don't, I don't have to bullshit and beat around the bush and stuff, and I, I can just be who I am and that's it like. Um, and now I just have to adjust my marketing methods to that. Basically to just like my narrative is just my narrative. No, it's not something that's made up, right, not to say nothing was made up before, but it's just like it's a certain persona I didn't know like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that, it's it was. It was still like almost Creating a separate entity of Anokam and then marketing that before, whereas now it's just me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I can just market myself, right, you don't have to attack, like again, you don't have to like, you don't have to follow a set of rules, you don't have to like put on a certain persona. There's the expectations and, granted, probably in 10 years there might be more expectations, but right now there's not. You know like, and that's the point is that right now we don't have to have this, and I think the people that Kind of like felt stuck in that bubble, sounds like you and I'll like obviously you know me as well like that. We're just like stuck in this like thing. Where I'm, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. Man, it's it's really hard for me to put on a persona like I know, in certain situations that needs to be done and there's value in doing so and just depending on who I'm talking to. But, man, I suck. It's one of the things. I suck it overall and that that's what made this space so appealing is that, like I can finally be this person that like I, I never thought I could be on twitch or on you know, making like unboxing videos on youtube or whatever, whatever the case might be.
Speaker 1:There was like moments where you saw me trying to do that, but it just didn't, it just didn't click Right. Right, you know what I mean. Um, yeah, I did. So I want to, I want to start, I want to start pivoting into some of your work, man, Because, like the this, the stuff that I saw First, you know, believe it or not, actually, you know, it was super rare. What I saw first, but actually what spoke to me the most so I want to learn more about it selfishly is, uh, the silent movie on open sea. Like, uh, that I Love this collection, man, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a screen share up so that way everyone else can see it, if you want to, and we can talk about certain parts of it. Um, what was like, you know, talk about storytelling and being authentic, like what was, like the, the idea behind this.
Speaker 2:I've been obsessed with movies since I was a kid, like like a real obsession since I was like, since I ever started watching movies. So it's like at the beginning it was the obvious, like disney stuff, and then I think it was around when I was like four or maybe four or five, um, I watched terminator two, um, terminator two, judgment day, and that changed my life. That was like I was like yo, I wouldn't like I need to know everything about this movie. Yeah, like, yeah, how it was made, how I just said I was like this is the coolest thing ever. And 20 years later, 30 years later, I'm still watching it, like I keep watching it and I'm just like this holds up still really well, um, and then I go into stuff like um, you know, soon after there's watching stuff like back to the future, um, and Then also getting into.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was five I was like sick. I didn't go to school that day, I was at home, um, and I was just flicking through our bootleg cable that we had Um, so just you know, flicking through the channels, and all of a sudden we ended up on this. I ended up on this Japanese channel. I didn't know it was Japanese at the time. I just saw Dragon Ball and they were fighting right. So it was like Goku fighting Piccolo. I was like all the Japanese no subtitles, nothing, and I'm five, I can't even read that fast. So it's like, even if it wasn't English, and I was like yo, these guys are fighting. This is the coolest Shit. I've never seen anything like this before. Like what the hell is this? And for the next two years I didn't know what it was. Um, kept on trying to find that channel for the next two years any time it was on. And so eventually I found Sailor Moon on that channel and I watched it and I was like, yeah, this is beautiful. Still didn't know what they were saying. And then I remember I went to New York when I was seven and Dragon Ball Z came out with the American dub, and that's when I realized of, like you know, japanese anime and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And so it's during just like different experiences throughout, like my childhood, of loving movies and then loving anime and stuff, where I was like I want to make stuff like this and when, like I want people to feel how I feel when I was watching stuff and almost missing places that they've never been to. It's like when you watch a movie, sometimes you feel a sense of nostalgia, but you don't know why you can relate with the scene, but sometimes, like, maybe it's something someone, something very specific someone said, or they're walking down a very specific alley or they're walking a very specific way or something like that. So it's just like moments where you can kind of relate to and I just like, yeah, I want people to feel this kind of way, that I feel about my own work. And as I got to picking up a camera, I was like I couldn't really do video at the time but I realized I still want. I want to make movies like that's really why I want and so eventually, like my composition, that were just the way I see, developed into this, like kind of panoramic, kind of style. And then I realized kind of, oh, I could tell stories better according to how I want to with these three set panels of like.
Speaker 2:And a guy is movie in Japanese, got it. So I know a guy is like my name with movie. But I know a guy if I, if I say in Japanese, I know, also means that okay, or like that one over there. So it also translates into Japanese, like that movie, so it kind of like translates both ways in English and Japanese. That's super creative. That's super creative and thank you. This is I really enjoy languages. I'm just like trying to see how they fit together and yeah.
Speaker 2:So then it's just I've been shooting this since like 2017, on my first trip, and it's from, I remember so, the NFT space.
Speaker 2:It created the space for me to I should curate my work now, not just shoot stuff and then make a day and post, but it's also I want to curate stuff better, and it's this space that helped me create this series.
Speaker 2:So I was already shooting and editing, making these sets already before that, but I had about 12, maybe 16, 20 or something, something like that, going into permitting this series last year.
Speaker 2:But then it's when it came to curating this and thinking, oh, this is a series I would really like to meet, because this is like, really important to me is, this is very much how I view the world, and it helped me curate more sets, basically, and just see, oh, these are stories that, these are the stories I want to tell, these are my experiences in Japan, and I think these are experiences other people would have had as well, and then I also want to throw in some my kind of portrait style work in here as well. So there are like maybe five or five or six portrait ones in there, because I felt like, again, with these three sets, this is how I like to tell portraits, yeah, this is how I like to tell portrait sets where, yeah, I don't. Yeah, it's just how I see things, it's just honestly how I see things, and I wanted to express that.
Speaker 1:That's I mean, and so these people, that's just I mean again, this is super unique and it's like something that like popped out, like when I started checking out your work and started like I mean, not that the other stuff didn't, but this is what like spoke to me the most you know and it's just it's a really creative way to tell a story. And you know, with these people, did you you? How did you find these people like where they just like random people on the street, did you like so?
Speaker 2:this, this one you have up right now. This is actually one of my friends who came from London and so, especially during that time where my friends couldn't come anymore because of COVID, I wasn't getting to see any of my friends from London anymore and while I was making a thing where anytime some of my friends would come from London or anyone I didn't know and I was meeting, I would kind of like shoot them and just like make a make a thing that out of it. Yeah, kind of, and I was calling a mandem in Japan at the time. Mandem is a very London word, okay, and it just just means your friends basically got anyone who you're close with and but it's just a very London word for it and but I wasn't seeing them. So I was like, yo, I want to make something cool that includes my friends in them.
Speaker 2:So even some of the other portraits with some of the other people, they were like some of my model friends who we just worked together, shot something together, and I was like, oh, I can make a series. And I always asked them like you know, like out of this, I, how much? I think 0.1 was like. I think I gave half per portrait set if, if they sold and because I shot with a model, I didn't do it by myself and some people said no, they don't want it. I was like Are you sure? And some people said like yeah, cool. Like I was like happy, like let's set up a metal mask and I'll send it over. Yeah, like that was like kind of like my little, kind of on board.
Speaker 1:I was literally thinking that people yeah, yeah, yeah, and I was just like I, I.
Speaker 2:This isn't about the money. For me, this is like I got to work with someone and make something and someone's collecting it Like, okay, cool, like yeah, yeah, dude, this one.
Speaker 1:That was actually the one I think it recently sold when I had my eye on it and I was actually really mad that I didn't pick it up.
Speaker 1:This is arguably a solo moment yeah this one's one of my favorites and I don't I don't really again kind of like when when art makes you feel something, you don't really know why and you don't like no, but that was one of the ones. I remember this there was only like two of them available at the time and like for still like at what you had listed them for, and I remember seeing this. I'm like man, like I saw it was between like a long time ago, and I'm like I saw this and I'm like I made a mistake on that one because I wanted, I wanted this one. So bad.
Speaker 2:This one's one of my favorites because it was very like I remember. So this is all three shots off from 2017. I went to Kyoto and Kyoto's like my one of my favorite places ever. Like I've been like seven or eight times now. Like I know Kyoto without, without having to use Google Maps, I can just walk around like that, like I can just like, yeah, I'm just like yeah, I know how to get from the river to King Kakajian staff and the walk down flows. Like I know that that comes like yeah, like I love being there and it's like super refreshing, like it's just refreshing getting away from Tokyo, going down to Kyoto. And yeah, this is like two places with the orange gates like very, you know, everyone knows them, everyone's seen them before, and it's it's the shot at the top. The first frame. I was like yo, I feel like I'm in Crouching Tiger hidden dragon, Like that kind of you know.
Speaker 2:it felt like one of those movie b-rolls, yeah, Like, and it just made me happy that I got something like that. That's it. It's just like that was one of those profound moments. From that I was able to capture something that I would see in my head and show it. I love that and it's and then it's like the middle panel is always just again. It was just like one of those things where I kind of waited for the possibility that something like this might happen. Yeah, and the person just like lined up perfect, exactly why I wanted them to, and I just took the shot and kept it moving.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So was this, so this person that did you know? Was that like planned or was that just like a moment you caught in time?
Speaker 2:No, just strange. I never planned anything like all of my shots, like when it comes to street stuff, it's just spur of the moment, all they just happened, and I happened to have the spider sense that something's going to happen next and like had my camera ready, that's all.
Speaker 1:I love that. No, that's that's. I think that's probably what stuck out to me the most is like, because that's such an intimate moment, you know that that that person's having, and the fact that you captured that, without it being choreographed, without it being staged, without it, you know like that was just like you had the sense or the intuitive part to like capture such a yeah. I mean yeah, it's just a beautiful moment, man, I think that's yeah, yeah, that's why that one stuck out to me. Thank you, yeah, and so the you know. The last one is that kind of are these poles like the same thing as this, or is this a different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, so, so they're from the gates that go. So it's like the place is called Fushimi in Aitai-sha, and it's just like thousands and thousands of gates that just go on for like an hour and a bit hike up a mountain, wow, and it's just like it just goes. Yeah, it just goes like this. So you go up the mountain and come back down and just like thousands of gates during that whole kind of walk and it's super nice, like anytime anyone comes, it's like a really popular, just like tourist spot.
Speaker 2:I like that I've been fortunate to have been like three or four times now and been to the top like three times. So, and yeah, it's just one of those things is like if you come to Japan, you have to go, you have to do it, you have to see it Like and it is super worth it as well. It's not even difficult to get there, but it's just. It is very like. Oh, it's just, it looks exactly how I imagined. Like one of those things like, and it's just weird that, oh, it's exactly what I thought it was going to look like. It's not like there's no disappointment, though sometimes you know it gets crowded because of the tourists. You can't do anything about that, right, unless you live in Japan during COVID.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless you're local. I'll tell you, man, like I lived. I lived in Aspen, colorado, for a little while. It was one of the one of the most beautiful places in the world I'd ever lived, and like, getting to be a local meant that, like I got a free ski pass because of because of my job, I got to go on the mountain when it was like on a Tuesday during non-peak season and like you just felt, I just felt like I own the entire place. You know it. Just, it's just that super cool feeling Like when you get to be a local in spots like this, like this, is some of the and that's probably also why that stuck out is now that you mentioned is that this is a tourist spot and this is a super intimate spot where you know there's not a lot of people when they're typically are, when they're like, when they're typically is, and you just had the ability to do that. That's the capture. That's so awesome, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you. No, I think that's one of the things about alone in total, alone in Japan series. It's finding those very, very. It's like Japan's just super crowded, but then it's finding those very, very peaceful moments like that just exist, they just happen. And so that alone, alone in Japan series over on foundation, that's just. That's very much for me. It's very much trying to express my experience in Japan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this one. This is actually yes, yeah, so this is actually and I'm surprised this one hasn't sold. It's like this one actually. I think it drives on the simplicity and, like this one was probably one of my favorites it probably is one of my favorites out of the entire one and I'm like at where was that? Like so how did you, how did you get this shot? Like, tell me a little bit about this one.
Speaker 2:Where was this one? Was the Shinjuku? I think this was in Shinjuku and it was very much. It was just like I don't know, it was Asagaya. And somewhere that's not as popular, but I don't know how to explain where it is. Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1:But I'm not gonna know anyway, so it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just trying to, because I usually remember where I take everything. I usually remember like every single shot, yeah, yeah, and and I remember it was just like just wandering around, just it was just wondering. It was very much just wondering around me at night. I had my camera and looking through the, looking through that window and I just saw, oh this, this guy is in there to, he's just gonna, he's eating some ramen or it was a ramen shop. That's why I know it's ramen and I was like this guy is in there to just hang out, like he's by himself, and he's just there to hang out, get away from the buzz outside. It's just busy and it's also it's like being like 3am. There's like you can't go anywhere, like there's no trains, nothing like that, and he's very much just alone with the ramen and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just felt like a lot of people relate to this. You know, sometimes it's sometimes it's grabbing 3am ramen just to feel better, sometimes grabbing 3am ramen because you're hungry. Sometimes for me it was going for that walk around that time, yeah, where that's gonna make me feel nice about myself, and even just across the series. It's all about these having these not lonely. Lonely is the wrong word. It's just these moments alone, though, where and everyone has a different story for those moments. And yeah, I just really I don't know what it was about this shot where I saw it and it was just the framing, composition and how everything looked, and it just felt right and I just snapped. There wasn't much thought process beyond that. I was just like I knew the composition I was going for and it was just instant of just like, and then I went check it when I got home, like I don't know, I probably have to check that a lot later.
Speaker 1:Actually, yeah, yeah, don't want to show it and I feel like I mean you hit the nail on the head, Like it's a super relatable moment, especially to people, especially to, I guess you know, creatives, artists.
Speaker 1:You know the 2am nights or the 3am nights where you're just like that's, you're just alone with your thoughts, and sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, you know, and you just like not necessarily loneliness, but just like that moment where you're the rest of the universe is still and I think you know I'm not an early riser but I'm a night owl and I think that's part of the reason why I enjoy. That is because, you know, when I get to go outside at like 1am, 2am, 3am, it's just silent, like it's just there's no energy, like everyone's sleeping and like to me, like I know that's why some people like waking up at five in the morning or like six in the morning, just because, again, it's that same feeling. It's just a different part of the part of the day or just a different mindset, but you're like getting the same result. I guess You're, you're all seeking the same thing. You know you just want that silence but it just depends on, like, who you are and how you operate and where you work best.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is.
Speaker 2:And for me, with this series, it was just like you know, there's someone so like this place, so busy, as like Japan, tokyo, finding these pockets with. You know, one of the things like in Tokyo, like when I'm talking to people and stuff, is they are trying to get away from like the stresses of daily life and work and stuff and is having these moments of peace and quiet and whatever, and some stillness, I guess, and that's kind of what I wanted to capture in this series. So, like there isn't, like there's no roadmap. The roadmap is it ends this year. Like so I might be. I mean one a month, it might be, I don't mean any year. This might be the very end of it. Like this is just very much me exploring my life in Japan and my own experiences and feelings around it and stuff, and then but this will only go to the end of the year Like I'm not going to proceed beyond 2022.
Speaker 1:This is I. I love that and it's like I'm a big subscriber. You know, of course, like I love my 10k generative PMP project collections and like I, I, the community that's built around those. The opportunity to make money is incredible and just that's a great place to meet a lot of people. But I think one of the biggest challenges I actually talked with this with Jeremy Jeremy Cowart, on the last, on one of the previous couple episodes, and it's just like there's people have this like mindset of 10k generative projects and they try to come into you know one on one art or you know additions are with that expectation of like you know when utility, or like what's it's like you know when roadmap, it's like no man. Like the art is utility, like the story is utility, the way it makes you feel is utility. That's part of what art is. You know what I mean Like that's it.
Speaker 2:Terminator 2 changed my life. I'm not asking for payment from it.
Speaker 1:Right, right, if you, if you think it connects, connect with it and literally connect your wallet and send a transaction right. This is probably. This is the other one that it was. That was the, it was the ramen one, and then it was this one.
Speaker 2:This one, this was. I remember this one. It was Golden Guy, shinjuku, which.
Speaker 2:This is like a small quarter, and I'm pretty sure anyone that's come to Tokyo saying Golden Guy, you know where this is and it's like this really small block, I'd say. It's like a block of tiny bars, so every sign you see is a bar, oh, wow. So it's like almost like speak, not speak easy, but it's just like you know, like the maximum people, a number of people that can see in there is between like four to six, wow, okay, that's how small these bars are. So these are like super intimate bars, so there's like just hundreds within this, like just really small blocks, blocker space. So usually this is super busy because of that. Like there's lots of people just wandering out all the time constantly, like it's just there's always someone there wandering around, and so I was walking through kind of that block and I just had this scene of like you know this like salaryman looking guy who is going through this space, and I was like this is, this is Tokyo, this is a mood man Like this is a mood for real.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, and I noticed you captured a little bit of American culture in there too, with the Ramones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot, as a lot of these bars are like themed in different ways. So there's like one about movies is one that has like a terminator poster up, like on the outside and stuff as well. Yeah, a lot of these bars have like different themes, so it's like it's. It's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man, I mean this and this show. Like there's not I mean obviously, the, the, the, the feel or the, the, the collection is alone in Tokyo, but like there's so much, like you have a broad palette when it comes to, like, how you capture things and how you can tell that same story, and I think that's that's something that I really admire is that there's not there's an underlying theme, but there's it's also really different. At the same time, it's different ways of saying the same story. So I got I just want to point that out because it's thank you. Like you never I appreciate it, yeah, man, you never know. Like you never know what you're going to get in personally for someone like me, like that that excites me Because you know, like it's also no secret that, like I'm a big tool fans, the, the band, you know it's like I think that's what I like about them is that their sound is, it's never mistaken.
Speaker 1:Like you'll not, you'll always be able to hear their sound, but like they've evolved so many, so much over the years that, like every album tells a different story and it means something completely different. Yet when you hear a riff, or you hear a drum, but you hear a bass line even if you don't listen to the band. Like it's pretty, it's pretty clear. Like it's it's very distinguishable is what I'm trying to say is that you don't want to draw that same parallel. Where it's, you know it's, it's distinguishable, but also it like I know, and actually where I was going with that a little bit, is that sometimes bands will like, sometimes they'll go in a creative direction and I may not, sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1:But you know, and I've seen some of my favorite artists come like, take that direction and they go back to like where they started. They almost make that like full circle and I to to ramble on and somehow put this together. Is that like? I respect the creative journey of like, not pigeonholing yourself to like one thing you know. That's. That's the point I'm trying to get at. Is that like? Yeah?
Speaker 1:you may just probably a style that you vibe with for a little bit or that you know it's fine, but like there's no. There's no like constraints on like where you can go and what you can do, and you know. Going back to our initial conversation, I feel like and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like I know you a little bit better than I did an hour ago is that this is like living up to that ethos of like constantly being out of your comfort zone. You know what I mean. Like it is it is.
Speaker 2:It's just like I started offers of photography 10 years ago, yeah, sure, but like nowadays, I just like, especially because of the space I get, I prefer to say I'm an artist and just like my camera is my favorite tool, like some of my super stuff. Like I like to capture video and then use it as the asset that I use to make stuff whatever. Or like a Tokyo dream, the first one, oh, there it is. Yeah, things that the bottom right, yeah, though, like that's.
Speaker 2:Like I went down to Shinjuku to grab some video and I kind of had an idea of what I went to look like, pull it over to Artrefix and just like, kind of did my thing, yeah, and so it's just like my camera is my tool, but then I'm also using other thing, like other software, to make it look in different ways, pull it into 3D and whatever it's. My camera is just a tool nowadays. So, yeah, like you said, pigeonholing I don't want to pigeon my whole pigeon, pigeon my whole, pigeonhole myself into like a very specific box. Like I do photography, I make videos, I double in 3D, I like, I just like making stuff. Like you know, if I could have a job title underneath, I would just say I like making stuff.
Speaker 1:I do things with, with stuff that I like, and I make things. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. Like you know, I just try and I try things and sometimes they go well, sometimes they don't. I waste a lot of time.
Speaker 1:I love this man like where, like you know this, obviously, like you know, I don't partake anymore and I've been sober for almost nine years but like, I'm always been a big fan of like the psychedelic, you know, kind of like feeling, and I've always resonated with that and always, to me, you know, it was probably the one part of my story, the one substance or one area of my life that I like I may have had a pocket of abusing, but it was the one thing out of everything that I just I always treated with a little bit more like attention and care and it was more precious to me, you know, because to me it always represented a journey inward and it was.
Speaker 1:It was where, you know, now, granted, I realized today I don't have to take psychedelics to get to that point and that's great. But this was like my first experience with like being really present and almost kind of like that, your brain, my brain, operating at like a higher level. You know where I just was like talk about the vibe. This is my first experience with like the vibe, you know, and you just like walk to someone that you don't like and you just turn the other way and you don't know why, you can't explain it, but like makes your stomach upset and you just walk away. So like this, this one always like this to me would be like, would be super cool. I can see why you mentioned this on Super Rare, because like this to me would be a really cool piece and like not a Deca but a but an on-cyber gallery where it's like kind of like immersive and it's like you're in it and you know you can like kind of walk around and just stare at this for like as long as you want to.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's like. So I, you know, I filmed the video for this and I had it already like this kind of like stop motion style kind of stuff, so you can see like the glow on the lights of the cars a bit more, especially at the beginning of the loop, and it was I kind of wanted to express. So like a lot of it's like a lot of my work does have like a psychedelic look to it, kind of that kind of trippy feel to it and it's more to express the feeling of dreams where it's that like my experience in Tokyo, in living out here, has been like a dream. It has its ups and downs. I've had my nightmare moments and stuff like that, where sometimes it doesn't feel good, sometimes it feels great, and this one was more of an.
Speaker 2:This piece was more of an ode to Tokyo, I guess where and especially so this by Shinjuku and I worked for the first two years in Japan. I worked about five minutes away from this exact spot, like I'm just like six, seven minutes walk away. So I was around this area for the first two years of my stay of like living in Japan like pretty much every day. So I would wander around this part like all the time, basically enough times a week I would wander around here just my camera, just hanging out with my phone, whatever it might be Going to the arcades and stuff and this is also like a popular spot to shoot from, but for me it was just like I like just hanging around Shinjuku.
Speaker 2:It was always great and I kind of wanted to like as part of this, like ode to Tokyo, whatever I went to like. So I captured this of Shinjuku, where I spent so much time, and then also I wanted to express that feeling of it is like a dreamland and like this is how I experience my way around Tokyo, wandering around, seeing the lights and seeing the lights and then having that flash of inspiration of like this is the something here, like that there's, where's the angle, what is it Like? Or shoot, whatever it might be, but those moments and you just go off on a buzz of like, oh my God, like, like that's it yeah, oh shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was just that. It was like just a very I wanted to make some kind of like loop based around that feeling where I feel like this is like often, especially on people's first trip to Tokyo, this is the experience that they feel when they walk through some of these neon streets and stuff like that, where it is like super overwhelming almost, where it's like why are all these lights here? Like this is a bit like is this real? Yeah, like yeah, almost kind of thing, and that's kind of what I just wanted to get out there.
Speaker 1:I like that and I like that. You took a spot that's commonly, that's commonly taken and you've added like a way to like bring out the feeling even more than it already has been, and you find your creative ways to do that, because I would have never, I would have never guessed, I'm sure, if I introspectively looked a little bit more, but I never would have like guess like. This is how I felt when I was first there, and this is exactly the feeling that you wanted to invoke, because this is like how a lot of people experience. It's like a, it's like it's not real or it's not, it's just very it's like a culture shock, a very positive culture shock, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for me it's always like I'm trying to, sometimes I'm trying to express the experience of, you know, when you first visit Japan and then when also, it's like I've been here for now it's been three years, but at that time it was like two and a half or whatever, and I made this is like also, living in the experience of living in Japan is very different to just visiting Japan. It's like super different, but it's also my. My experience, in particular, is way more different as well. Like I'm, you know, southeast Asian and brown. Being a far, I like I'm a Londoner who's brown, living in Japan, who speaks English, bengali and Japanese.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of identity crisis going on all the time and so, and they're also trying to make out here as, like, the creatives and artists and stuff like that. So it's I have my own experiences of like ups and downs, different to others, and stuff like that, and it's just like trying to capture those things. Yeah, and that it isn't all rose tinted glasses, because I try and still express like my frustrations and stuff on Twitter, but I still have like this really amazing experience living in Tokyo and I just can't imagine myself leaving anytime soon.
Speaker 1:You capture. You capture it really well, man. Like you, that sounds like it's yeah, there's. I think it's been the funnest part of what I do. Is that, like finding ways to chat with people, that this is the main form of expression. You know, thank you, Absolutely, man. Thank you Because it's again like I always. You know I'm of.
Speaker 1:You know I came from video games. I grew up playing video games in my life and I'm super about, you know I love the immersive experience. You know halo changed my life and so it's like where I was always surrounded by, and I think for me, a lot of it was that I never, you know, I always feel like I never just grew out of my teenage years of like feeling like the different kid you know what I mean and it's like a lot of like what video games represent. That was like my way of expressing. That was like diving into.
Speaker 1:Granted, I didn't really put like pen to paper, get like creative when it came to computers, but like that was the way for me to like almost kind of like dive into that, like a little bit like. That was like how I, what I used to express myself, and there was no way of actually communicating that. But I was surrounded by a world and I was playing a character that resembled a sense of like strength and like honor and hope and like perseverance and like all. It was like my way of like becoming that person. If that makes sense, you know what I mean. And yeah, like totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love this dude, it's. It's that feeling of empowerment, right, yeah, and I think a lot of artists will find that in this space. That feeling of empowerment, a lot of artists will struggle to find it, but it's finding your own path. Is that authenticity? I guess that's where you find out empowerment, I guess, yeah, yeah man, this was one of my pieces on foundation and we're the collector we discussed in every Dove Super, so I like that. So, yeah, he wanted it on Super. I was like that's cool, like let's do it, amen.
Speaker 1:We just saw it out. Provenance matters, man, like it, provenance matters, and you know it's. It's a very interesting way to show it. It's actually probably the the healthiest way to show it, because I remember thinking about the traditional find out world and like how provenance, you know, is documented there and I'm like there just seems like there's so much room for fraud. You know, they're like and I'll touch on you know our my original point, but it's like there seems like there's so much room for fraud, it's so easy to counterfeit. You have to get such a trained eye when here, if you look at the like, the problem that it solves is that like it's public, it's immutable. You can't change it. You can. You know, you may have to understand how a wallet works, but any person can actually figure it out and no person has to have this like super detailed, like monocle and attention to detail about like what's the fake?
Speaker 2:and what's not.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's sometimes. It's just, I think, a lot of us in web three that think this way or this specific way and this understanding it just doesn't agree with a lot of people who still think you're Web two and like traditional art and stuff like that, and that's where the clash is just like not understanding that, the opposite person's way of thinking around it, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And people in web three tend to go on like really big tangents and have these really wild kind of like ideas and I think that's been the biggest challenge for me is, like here you have to think about, like, how this could be used 10 years down the road with technology that we don't have. You have to be somewhat crazy in thinking that like this, like you have to like, you have to have a little bit of an imagination, you have to be a little bit crazy, but also you have to operate and function in this world. And trying to communicate that to people is really tough, like even with my mom and I, just for the fact I love that. My mom's just curious about it now that I've been doing this for a year. But she's just like when I buy something like I don't want, if I buy a piece of digital art, I don't want to look at it on my phone, and I was like that's fair, like I can agree with that sentiment. You know I can understand where she's coming from. I said you're missing.
Speaker 1:The point is that, like this technology has the ability to create new experiences and how will this be experienced when you have the Zoomers, like the 15 to currently, you know, 24, 25 year olds spending their time building worlds in Minecraft, roloblox, all these other games. Like this is where we're like. You know, I'm not. I don't want to subscribe to the dystopian future where we all just have VR goggles and we're in you know, sucks metaverse.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, the digital presence and digital ownership and digital worlds are very valued, and so you got to look at this from a perspective and even as, like mom, even if you don't like, even if it's not your cup of tea, that you don't ever want to do, even if you want to own something from an investment perspective, like this is actually like this is where it's headed, you know. So, whether you like it or not, whether you personally agree with it or not, you could actually have a stick in this and you actually own something really cool that could appreciate over time, or it could not, or you're just like the art, you know. But that's been the biggest challenge. Is that, like trying to communicate that just you can't let like just the overzealous, like passion ooze out, because that's when you're just going to lose people. That's where I've lost people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially when your sentences have oh, there's 10,000 monkeys and 10,000 cats in them. You know, like you know, it's just like I've had these conversations before. Like I know I sound crazy, but bear with me. Like I'm going somewhere with this, right, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I, yeah, it's a challenge, man, and I think there's so many different aspects to this. I think that confuse people, like we were talking about FXHash and like you know, the some of the generative art there and the Teslas, blockchain and just the wild community out there, and then there's Ethereum, then there's monkeys, then there's fine art, then there's super rare and then there's, you know, goblins, and then there's, you know, like trying to describe what this is is. You can't make it up.
Speaker 2:Like you literally just need to be a DJ, like you need to think like a DJ to just get it. Yeah, like, yeah, this goblin is valued at this much, this much, but Toads did something similar and went back down. Because Toads, this and if you, I've had these goblins and people some of my friends are like what are you talking about? Like, how do you know any of this? Like you just said, goblins, goblins and Toads yeah, like goblins, toads, cats, monkeys, like there's like what? Yeah, and like it's weird because it's like I'll have these conversations like every other. So it's like I've got like a few group chats, one especially like with two of my collectors, prouser and Clutch, where like oh, I'll be there every day to him and it's just like if you look at the chat history of that, it's just insane. Like if you've like we know we're normal people, but if someone else outside of this Web3, this Web3, it's kind of saw this chat history, like what the hell are they talking about? This is insane, this is like crazy talk.
Speaker 1:It is when you also look at like I'll actually publicly state this, but it's like I think goblins they're going to pump. Like they're going to pump right now and I'll explain my whole thought process behind this. Like I'm not going to create a thread. I think threads like there's certain people that read threads and there's more than 90% of them I don't just because they're just, but there's some that I really value and some I don't. But when it comes to goblins, like it really makes sense that in a bear market where there's not a whole lot of things that are doing well there's not that I actually going to take that back there's actually quite a few things that are doing well. It's just volume has slowed down significantly since last year.
Speaker 1:But like it makes sense that a bunch of people are going to rally behind something that is so representative of the current mood. Like Goblin Town has been a meme, you know, and I think crypto Twitter is the people who like who started that meme and came up with that, and this is just a visual representation of the cope that everyone's feeling in crypto, you know. So it makes sense why this thing, out of anything and all things, would pump to astronomical levels and these things are just ridiculously ugly, you know. But I genuinely think that, like a couple of years down the road, if this still continues the way it is, that sounds so like ridiculous to say, but that will actually, in my opinion, be something of value in a while, because it was representative of a moment in time and it you know what I mean and that's what I'm going off of.
Speaker 1:I could be completely wrong, but like it nailed the meme and they are doing exactly what they said they were going to do. It's just like the motherfuckers man. It's just a bunch of goblins like making goblin noises and like people rally behind simple concepts like that. Like it's so simple but it's. You have not been able to log on to Twitter without seeing the ugliest goblin you've ever seen in your entire life.
Speaker 2:I don't know it's true. Maybe the last week or two now it's just every day has been about goblins, yeah goblins have flipped cats.
Speaker 1:You know, goblins are like near-doodles. I mean that is just absolutely insane. And so, regardless of people's opinions of it, and just the ridiculousness of it, like this is actually kind of par for the chorus man this is. It makes like it's and I honestly think that it took a lot of skill to make those things as ugly as they did.
Speaker 2:Like those things are hideous, man, that's the they remind me of like art from books I used to read as a kid, exactly so it's like I'm not I'm not completely against them, right, it captures a specific style. I was like, oh, this is kind of nostalgic, I'm not going to lie, they're ugly, but they remind me of the witches.
Speaker 1:That's like like rolled all the witches, that kind of like Quentin Blake art style, yeah, dude, and that it touches on a lot of things, man, and I'm just going to call it and say, like you know, in a couple of years, these things will actually unfortunately, or fortunately, be like, be something of value. Goblins, flip punks oh my God, I don't know if that'll let's not go that far man.
Speaker 2:That would actually be.
Speaker 1:I don't know what to say to this market would be if goblins actually flip punks. That would this market. Yeah, that would be every day.
Speaker 2:now I'm just jumping in that chat and I'm just like I don't understand this market. This market's insane.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly, exactly, man, and I think that what's really interesting is that I had a chat with Dave Krugman a couple of weeks ago and we were saying that, like, theorizing at this bear market is going to be a lot different than the previous bear market because you look at, like 2017, 2018. Now, granted, I wasn't along, I wasn't there, so you know for anyone like, correct me if I'm wrong, but, like NFTs were not mainstream culture. I know enough to know that and it's like I feel like this is actually going to be different because, again going back to the previous point, people rally behind culture, people rally behind nostalgia. In moments of crisis and moments where things are not that good, people turn to things that make them feel good. They're not going to turn to candlesticks on the chart. They're not going to look at, you know, shorting and longing and other things.
Speaker 1:I'm sure some people that understand the game can play that game, but most can't. This is fun, you know, like this is fun, we're buying things that resonate with something inside of us and it has all these different gamification aspects and just speculation that make it fun, and I think that, like it's interesting, that like this is the way to cope. Like buying NFTs and flipping NFTs and like doing all these things is the way to cope and I think that it's going to like help people survive a little bit more, if I'm being like, perfectly frank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's just like you know, I don't know if Doodles hold 12 weeks or whatever it might be. It's like, hey, my 12 weeks is safe, that's right. Like the kind of thing the store of value in a JPEG, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're a liquid JPEG. Very fun stuff, man. Well, anna Cam, I think we'll start wrapping it up here. Man, this has been a treat. Thanks for allowing me to, like, get inside your mind and have a conversation with you.
Speaker 2:No, like quite this is great, like it's really like I had a really good time and just like thanks for having me on. To be honest, I could just like talk some nonsense for a while.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny man Like for a while, like I just felt like I was talking nonsense and I'm like, oh wow, actually kind of people like the nonsense, so I'll just keep keep talking nonsense and ask questions that are selfish for me and hopefully people like it. Look at that, that's just the whole idea.
Speaker 2:It's one of the reasons I started streaming. Yeah, like I was just like I like talking, but it's also, people want to hear me talk. I'm like, cool, I guess I'll stream it then. And then people would come by the stream and, just, you know, hang out for a few hours. I'm like, okay, this is cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, it's fun. Like it's fun, man. Well, so I want to give you one last plug. You know like if you want people to find you where's the best places, they should go first to find you, to find your work.
Speaker 2:Twitter. Yeah, twitter, I'm active all the time there. I've taken a little bit of time away for the last two weeks now, just like trying to take a WebStreet diet at the moment. Yeah, it's very intense over the last year and a bit now. But yeah, I know Cam underscore on Twitter, instagram, whatever Twitter every day and on all platforms Super Rare Foundation, what else? Opensea, opensea yeah, I don't know what else I want. Yeah, I know Cam. Everywhere you can find me. My links are on my Twitter anyway.
Speaker 1:Cool man. Well, hang out for just a little bit, we'll let the thing finish uploading, but, man, it's been a, it's been a treat. Man, this has been an absolute joy and I think that, yeah, dude, thanks for letting me to, thanks for allowing me to, thank you for coming out to share part of your story. Man, it's been a treat.
Speaker 2:No, man, honestly, like I had a great time, like I don't often get to do stuff like this. That's why I was like, yeah, thank you. Yeah, let's just hang and chat, like even sometimes my collectors just up in a Zoom call and we just chat for a bit, that's right, man.
Speaker 2:Like that's I've been doing. I did that with, like one of my collectors who picked up one of the sign of movie and he just was curious about photography and wanted to get better and stuff. Yeah, so we just jumped in like an hour Zoom call, just like, hung out, spoke a bit, and another one of my collectors like he was just going through like a rough time personally and stuff. I was like, yeah, let's just hang Just jumped in the Google chat like 3am over here and then like yeah, we're just like hanging out. I was like, oh yeah, like I don't. Like I very much want to create a community around me that's more like family, like there's like an adult fam in comparison to like I don't know, someone's going to flip my work for profits.
Speaker 2:I love seeing people make profit off my work. Like I love, like if someone can sell it like good on them, like I'm happy to see that happen. But it's like I want to try and create this community which is more like everyone's there for each other kind of thing. Like whoever my collectors are like, I'm there for them. Yeah, like it's not necessarily just a one way thing of like the collectors are supporting me. It's like, no, I'm there for you as well. Like how can I help you? And like I guess that's my fad. You maybe, I don't know. Like I'm just a human. Like so are you? That's right. Like that's just what I want to keep going down. So, even like NorCal, I jumped in this chat with him and, just like we just hang out discord and chatting around, I'm working with very tests on some stuff. Yeah, man, like it's like you said about relationships earlier, like this space has like opened up so many more like this global aspect of it, like relationships like never would have had before, right, Right, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like like flings the flings the door wide open, man Like it's. I've actually had that. I've had a few chats with some of the people I've previously interviewed and those chats are scheduled for 30 minutes but they typically go. Last one went for almost three hours. So it's for someone who likes to talk. Man. I should never like schedule Like I try to schedule block one hour. I should have said they typically never happens, man, but hang out, man for a little bit. We'll chit chat afterwards. But I appreciate you again and again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for listening to the Schiller vaulted podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. As we close out today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite audio platform and leave a five star review to ensure you never miss an episode and to help others discover the vaulted podcast as well. To stay updated on upcoming episodes, as well as our weekly Twitter space schedule, be sure to follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Schiller XYZ. Once again, thank you for tuning in and remember if you're looking for it art is everywhere and it's up to us to appreciate and explore the emotions it brings to our lives. Until next time, this is Boone signing off.