Embark on a narrative odyssey with Emma Nedell, Tally Labs' Head of Story and World Builder for Azurbala, as she shares her journey from Hollywood to the uncharted waters of Web3 storytelling. We traverse the fusion of digital and physical realms, and explore how Emma's craft is reshaping characters and worlds for a new age. With a nod to the disruptive force of Unreal Engine in filmmaking, our conversation unveils the transformative interplay between technology, storytelling, and the relentless pursuit of creative evolution.
Emma and I dissect the role of hard work in seizing opportunities, celebrating the unpredictable yet calculated dance that can lead to life-altering breakthroughs. Our discussion weaves through the importance of continuous growth and the recognition of personal aptitudes, offering valuable wisdom that resonates across various career landscapes.
As our conversation comes to a close, we contemplate the film industry's current state, the allure of storytelling within the digital frontier of Web3, and the societal challenge of navigating information overload. We also touch on the essence of community building in a trustless environment and the personal virtues that guide us amidst global uncertainty. Emma's insights, coupled with personal reflections, provide a distinctive perspective on the responsibilities we bear in the ever-evolving tale of digital connectivity.
Emma Nedell
X (Twitter): https://x.com/EmmaNeedell
Website: https://www.evilmonsterdog.com/
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
Embark on a narrative odyssey with Emma Nedell, Tally Labs' Head of Story and World Builder for Azurbala, as she shares her journey from Hollywood to the uncharted waters of Web3 storytelling. We traverse the fusion of digital and physical realms, and explore how Emma's craft is reshaping characters and worlds for a new age. With a nod to the disruptive force of Unreal Engine in filmmaking, our conversation unveils the transformative interplay between technology, storytelling, and the relentless pursuit of creative evolution.
Emma and I dissect the role of hard work in seizing opportunities, celebrating the unpredictable yet calculated dance that can lead to life-altering breakthroughs. Our discussion weaves through the importance of continuous growth and the recognition of personal aptitudes, offering valuable wisdom that resonates across various career landscapes.
As our conversation comes to a close, we contemplate the film industry's current state, the allure of storytelling within the digital frontier of Web3, and the societal challenge of navigating information overload. We also touch on the essence of community building in a trustless environment and the personal virtues that guide us amidst global uncertainty. Emma's insights, coupled with personal reflections, provide a distinctive perspective on the responsibilities we bear in the ever-evolving tale of digital connectivity.
Emma Nedell
X (Twitter): https://x.com/EmmaNeedell
Website: https://www.evilmonsterdog.com/
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
Music by 800DB
Twitter: https://twitter.com/800dbmusic
GM, this is Boone and you're listening to Vaulted, a Web3 podcast series from the Shuler archives. This episode was originally recorded on August 22nd 2022 and features Emma Niedel, head of story at Tally Labs and World Builder for Azirbala. In this episode, we dive deep into her journey from Hollywood to Web3, balancing physical and digital realms when telling a story, the importance of character development and much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and guests may own NFTs discussed. Now let's grab some coffee and dive in this conversation with Emma Cool GM. Emma, how are you?
Speaker 2:GM Boone doing great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming on. It's been a long time coming, because it wasn't until about a month ago. That well, no, no, I wanted to have you on a long time ago but I didn't realize your DMs were closed and I didn't have the thought of wow. I interviewed Jenkins. Maybe I could actually hit him up to see if I could get her on to tell her story. I didn't have that foresight until a month later, or a month ago, I guess, I should say and I did have to bug him a little bit, because I know he's super busy with his Azurbala, is that?
Speaker 2:correct Azurbala and the bug Bored and Dangerous. Jenkins is a busy man, A busy ape.
Speaker 1:He is a busy ape, that is correct, and so just to give like, just to tell the audience of where I found Emma, we were on Twitter Spaces, y'all know. I've had Jenkins of Alley on, super obsessed with this project and his story and what he's doing and the crew that he has just assembled to do some of the coolest storytelling, in my opinion. Emma Niedel came on to share her story and her creative process and what goes into like, literally like you do a lot of things. Right, I was. I briefly like, skimmed, like like director, producer, screenwriter, I'm like you do a lot of different things. So you were essentially giving the building blocks to really how your mind worked and how you craft a story, and I remember thinking that is so cool, I would have never thought of anything like that, and so that sparked the interest to have you on. So, emma, before we get into this, give a brief introduction with who you are and like what do you do, and let's just let's have a conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you found me there. That was my first Twitter space that I presented on ever Wow, wow, that's very cool. So I am a storyteller. My first love, in many ways, was Hollywood. It's what ignited my passion for storytelling.
Speaker 2:I grew up in rural Colorado on a cattle ranch and I would watch movies all the time and they were proof that you know, a massive world existed. And at some point I started paying attention to the credits after they were rolling and saw there are a lot of names and those end credits and not a lot of them repeated, and so I, at age 14, got this idea of wow, maybe there's room for me there out in Hollywood. So the goal has always been storytelling. It then turned into screenwriting. Just frankly, you know, it's a lot easier to write a story by yourself for free than it is to get the money and the people together to direct something. And starting in 2014, I kind of had my big break, my Cinderella moment, where a script that I wrote is called the Waterman just exploded around town, I mean it was really and that's on Netflix, right, it is on.
Speaker 2:Netflix. Thank you, Boona. You got it, shameless plug. Go watch it Like follow subscribe, that's right.
Speaker 2:So I had this big Hollywood moment and since then I've been a professional screenwriter, like you said. I'm also a director now and a producer. I'm sort of carving this niche in the world as a storyteller that embraces technology. For instance, a project I just directed had his premiere at Rebecca another shameless plug. Another project I directed used Unreal Engine, which for you video gamers out there, or you visual effects junkies out there yeah, okay. So I mean Unreal Engine is amazing and they're first and foremost a video game company. There's a software developed by Epic Games Fortnite but they also have been pivoting into Hollywood. They worked on the Mandalorian Avengers movies or Marvel movies, game of Thrones? I had no idea. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:All real time visual effects, which is insane. We can get into that if you're interested. Okay, really quick. This is how mind blowing it is. Normally, when you would do visual effects, you shoot on a green screen and then you render all the images later in post. And let's say you're filming and you have an actor shoot out high noon and you decide you actually want it sunset. If you have to move the sun asset down in your screen and then all the lighting has to change and typically before real time visual effects, it would take hours, if not days, to render that change. With Unreal Engine it happens instantaneously. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's actually. It's revolutionizing the industry, both from a CG perspective so animation, but also live action. Like Mandalorian, they shot all of those sets live action with a huge LED wall behind them, so all the actors saw the virtual sets on the day they shot and the camera doesn't have any visual effects.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is so fucking crazy Like far you know, like stupid Cool. I'm just trying to like process that. I'm like because I think about the actors that go through the green screen and they do like literally the process that you've been saying. I'm like, yes, that is so hard to do. That has to be so hard to do, Right.
Speaker 2:It's really hard to do, it's, it's very expensive, it's a nightmare. There are a lot of reshoots and as an actor, it's not that cinematic. You're just in a bright green studio all day and, with Unreal Engine and what they're doing, you are transported immediately to whatever set it is. It's incredible, but so moral of the story. You know, been kind of the storyteller, found Unreal Engine and in the spirit of never being afraid of new technology, which is sort of a pillar of who, when you think about a person's core truths, one core truth I want to embrace is not being scared of technology. Although there was a little bit of fear and misunderstanding with NFTs and Web 3 at the start, which maybe we'll get into, but I've lost that fear. I'm all in and here we are now in Web 3. And now I am also, as I am, emily Dell, filmmaker, writer, screenwriter. I am also Emily Dell, head of story at Tali Labs and the world builder behind Azarbala.
Speaker 1:What an intro. There is so many things we get to talk about here, so just, I didn't even tell you this offline. I told you I was podcasting for three years, but I didn't tell you the subjects or the not at the subjects, the people. The subject I was talking about before Web 3 was actually in eSports and so that was like my like I'm a gamer Right. So long story short.
Speaker 2:I'm a gamer.
Speaker 1:Halo, halo, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh fun, okay, yeah, you knew that right away.
Speaker 1:Yep, 100% Like I have. I got a, you know, so I have this on my desk, so I'm for those that are listening only in audio. It's a life or not, We'll know. It's a. It's about a two foot or a one foot size replica of Master Chief hyper realistic yeah. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is it is literally.
Speaker 1:It actually doesn't go with anything, but it doesn't really matter because it means so much to me.
Speaker 2:Exactly, we all have that one thing.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I mean I have a few of them, I have more, but that one, just that one just fits so well and I mean I have the. What you don't see is I have the Halo keyboard, I have the Halo mouse, the, the game mat, the. I mean that's amazing. Anyway, yeah, so Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, those were like the games that I grew up playing. And what to talk like were you probably like, like if you played those games, you understand, at least with Halo and Gears of War, that like the storytelling in those games are just something of another world and, like Halo didn't make me cry, gears of War did Gears.
Speaker 2:I played that one.
Speaker 1:So last.
Speaker 2:I played and I cried there too.
Speaker 1:I've heard a lot of good things about that. I'm also like now I don't have any consoles now but I was an ex like I was an ex-king, you know, or a team Xbox guy so I never got the joy of playing the Last of Us and I heard it was like a really, really good story.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. It actually was what got me interested into Unreal Engine.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:I saw that the cutscenes and I was like who's making these? These are, you know, hollywood quality. And in a funny twist of fate not fate I made it happen. I hunted after them as it worked out for the short film I directed. We actually worked with the team who did the Last of Us cutscenes, so it felt like it was really cool, yeah, counter Punch Studios, so it felt like this really kind of beautiful merging of worlds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that has to be. I love that you mentioned that Thank you for, because I think that there's that topic about lucky or being lucky. We actually had a we're actually on Twitter Spaces about this a little earlier today and it was not the same. We weren't talking about the same thing as we're talking about now, but we were talking about, like, putting ourselves in positions to be lucky. So it's like that is a conversation that actually needs to be more amplified because you know you could call, you know you could call, like my podcast, lucky and the people and everyone that I get to talk to lucky.
Speaker 1:But the reality was is that I spent a good year and a half doing this in an industry that did not like want to talk about who they were. It was really hard to get them on, but I somehow made it happen and so just so happened that I would put myself in the right spot in the right time, and I'll stop talking about me for a second, but I think it's really important is I told you that? You know it was like I told you about that moment where I entered in my seed phrase when I first started in the space. You know, I, I, I, like I did the thing that people always say not to do, and I read all the things and I was like I thought I was super vigilant. But right before that, what actually happened was I was watching a podcast with Gary Vee and a guy named Jimmy dot E and I was like super fascinated. There was a moment where Jimmy was talking about, like he just encompassed web three and just one statement that gave it sent like chills down my body. I'm like, holy shit, this is so cool and I just quote, retweeted him and he shared it and I was like having the biggest engagement day on of my entire life on Twitter. This happens like an hour later and then I shoot. Thank God, I shot Jimmy a message beforehand and then he just said, sure, and that was my second web three guests on the show, you know. So, like it's, I put myself in a position to be lucky.
Speaker 1:I still don't understand. I mean, I'll probably never understand, but I'm so grateful that, like he did, because I was an absolute nobody at the time, like I, like I Just I was just trying to figure that out. I really didn't feel like I was qualified to be talking to a lot of people, to be honest, because I, as I told you, I was in debt. So I'm not obviously good at like finances yet you know. So I'm not like a crypto guy. I'm not a, you know, and I'm and I don't like draw or produce or do anything like that. So I just really struggled with what is my hmm, you know what is my value, that I'm offering here. So to have that was like a super top signal for me there, so, and I just took that and I just like doubled, tripled, quadrupled down on that. Cool, that's where we are today. So, yes, it's it's super. I love that you said that.
Speaker 1:I love that you said that you weren't lucky. Like, yeah, you fucking did that like you did that shit, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is the Theme of my entire career and I think it's it's such a good lesson. Yeah, there's a lot of Obvious lessons that we've all heard about Hollywood, right that? Oh, if you're the friend or the son or the daughter of the niece and F you, etc. Of someone famous in Hollywood, it is that much easier to make it absolutely very difficult. If you're like me, you come from a family with no kind of background in Hollywood and also you're self-supporting yourself financially. It's a unfortunately in Hollywood, if you have, the rule is sort of, if you have money or connections, it makes it that much easier. And, frankly, that's probably true for everything. Yeah, and so you have to.
Speaker 2:When you do get those opportunities when Jimmy dot e Reaches out or responds to and says, hey, yes, I'd love to do your podcast.
Speaker 2:Or when you know for me, in my case, what launched my career Was a manager at a big management company agreeing to read my script on a whim, all these things when you finally get that opportunity, you have to take it and you do have to double down. And I think one thing that I've learned time and again I've a lot of lessons. I feel like I've learned and we'll keep learning, and new ones I'm sure I have yet to encounter, but one that has been true time and again is that you never make it to a place where you're just comfortable forever, where you can just kind of sit back and be like, great, it will all come to me. It's not to say do not take breaks. Burnout is real and you need to decompress, and you need to go offline, and this is true for every career, for every job. You need to heal. However, I've never, I don't, I do not believe you can ever find yourself in a position where everything just comes right easily to you, always have to hustle.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I love that you said that, because they're now. I will say, though, there is one thing it took me 30 years to like actually not learn, but like actually believe in it and be okay with it and just like, I guess, embrace it was. What comes naturally to me is I've always enjoyed having really good conversations and, like even before I had a podcast, I Like, like I'm a great active listener and I like having conversations with people. I like I'm genuinely curious, I like to get to know people, and I never recognized that as, like, a super valuable trait. It's just because it was so common to me. It was just it became. It became very easy, or came very easy to me, and I never had to try, but I didn't realize how hard that is for a lot of people to do that or how you know like and I. So it took me a long time to even not only understand that that was valuable, but actually to believe that I could. That was like the thing that I was going to build on and growing.
Speaker 1:Now I Suck. I saw I sucked at editing. Like I'm still subpar, you know, like there's not like just because one part of it is easy, like there's like eight other thing, things that go into this. That's being modest, very similar, probably the world that were you have the storytelling comes easy. But there's the, the hustle. There's the. There's the the make sure, making sure you find the right people. There's the you know who do I collaborate with? I'm sure there's so many different things that I'm not even like thinking of that you have to learn the tough way, or like you have to learn because you don't know how to do it, but it's a requirement. It's not just one thing that gets you to that spot or to get you to totally yeah, totally, and there are a lot of false darts and dead ends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really. I think that's equally important to talk about and I mean just, it's such a cliche. But you do learn more from your mistakes and I learned a lot from the projects I poured my heart and soul into. That will never get made. And one huge lesson and it actually is why I pivoted, or not even pivoted, but why I Got very curious about web 3 and NFTs and the power they have to tell stories and it was partly my frustration. So one thing when I had my big Cinderella moment in Hollywood, I was a personal assistant before. I Was literally picking up my bosses. They were big screenwriters. I was picking up their kids from school and buying their groceries.
Speaker 2:And then I got the call that Oprah wanted to produce my script, as I was literally bagging groceries for my bosses.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a moment. I'm just like imagining that as you're telling this story, like did you? Did you see that while you were bagging it was it afterwards Like, how did like? Did you like, like jump? So?
Speaker 2:literally I still had to pay. So I was like, trying to take the calls I was like, yes, just on the card will be fine. Like Like double bagging, there was soy milk and stuff. It was ridiculous. It was very Los Angeles. It was so cool. And you know, I'm driving in my beat-up Toyota Camry hurrying back to my boss's place, part of me wanting just to quit right there, but also like how am I gonna actually pay the bills? So it's very funny. But with that, you know, after that big break moment, yay, yeah, I wanted a plant of flag in the sand, which was at the time and this is still going on today. But a lot of movies that you see, a lot of TV shows, a lot of stuff coming out of.
Speaker 2:Hollywood. Our adaptations, a lot of content, adaptations or reboots. Thank you, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:It's hard to point to a project that's an original film, that wasn't first book or comic book or whatever. Some of these projects, some of these films and TV shows are amazing. I mean dude came in Incredible. I saw three times in the theater ones and I max like, yeah, it's why I want to be a filmmaker, that I'm gonna be like that and I love the book, by the way, the first book, I love the first book. But so it's a adaptation. And then there are all these reboots. It just feels like it.
Speaker 2:A lot of stuff is recycled and there's a fear of new ideas, and so I planted a flag I'm only going to do original ideas, and a few really cool opportunities came up through that. I got to work with some really big directors. One I'm really excited about was Eva DuVernay. Got to work on a script for her. I got to work on this other original project for a Danish director, a script that I love to this day. I love it so much I poured my heart and soul into it. But with all these projects, none of them will ever see the light of day and.
Speaker 2:There are many reasons why, but one is movies are expensive and the studios are scared to take a bet on certain projects.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:And it's been really disheartening. Yeah. Yeah, what's really cool about web 3? And here's the other thing to the other disheartening thing. When waterman came out, when it became a film, and when the project I just directed when it premiered at Tribeca, it reminded me and this seems obvious. But when you're in the weeds working on a project and sometimes these project, often these projects take years you can forget why you're doing it and on one hand, you're doing it for the collaboration I get to work with amazing actors, cinematographers, production designers, composers right.
Speaker 2:I mean the level of artistry that goes into a single project, spanned so many different art forms. It's actually, it's amazing. It's one of the best parts of art, and specifically film and TV.
Speaker 2:But really what you're doing it for what I do it for is to connect with an audience is to is to create something where an audience member will watch it and feel a kindred spirit connection To, to me and to everyone else who worked on this film, to make us all feel a little less lonely. That's why I do it and it's a really good reminder when people do watch projects I've worked on and they feel something and you know I hear about it either through Twitter or their reviews. It means so much. I was really cool about Osrbala was been one of the most special things about Tally labs and I work there and, of course, osrbala and bringing it out to the audience, to the community. It's not even an audience, it's the wrong word Community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah really, though, because it's not like sit in a dark room and watch something. It's no, engage right. I Am. I have created something that, in months, is Out to the community, and they are inspired by it, and they're creating stories and lore, and together we're gonna make something really special that will live in eight different places and in eight different types of content. You know what I mean. Eight, that's not even exaggeration.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Okay, I don't. I came up with that, I was lucky in Osrbala, but you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, like baby Osrbala will Find its way to Hollywood, right, yeah, that's, that would be really cool, but it's, it's. It's awesome to be building this whole world Alongside people who love it and want to be in it and want to create in it as much as I do.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:That to me is why I want to, why I'm in, why I'm full in no safety net.
Speaker 1:Let's go right, you and me we connected a little bit offline about like our intro to crypto and our intro To the space and how NFTs were like the vehicle, that like unlock, it was like the unlock right, it was the unlock of all, like Could, because before this, you know again, I'll repeat this again live like I didn't give two shits about crypto or anything, but the ability to tell stories in a new way. For some reason, that Just sent me to like, for all intensive pur, like for lack of, you know, creative thinking, like to the moon, you know, but that that's what. That's what sparked that curiosity and I'll tell you, I, in the beginning, didn't Really, I'm like, I didn't realize. I enjoyed collecting things until I could do it digitally. I'm not a big collector when it comes to that, so that was actually my intro to it.
Speaker 1:So I just, you know, then all of these things like Jenkins Jenkins comes along and unlocks this ability to tell a story where the community is almost, is like, not almost like. They play a very important role In shaping the narrative of the story that we're trying to tell, and so I think that's so cool. I want to, I want to vent some frustration that lines with your, with your thing. I'm so happy that you said that there's this big. There's this big like pullback of, like trying to create new content or like new movies like the new.
Speaker 1:I have been so frustrated with movies For the past however many years, um 10 years, 10 exactly, it doesn't. It feels like that's been way too long. I'm sick and tired of more. Yeah, I love Batman, but it's like I'm getting. It's just like man. They're so recycled and not the nice Cycled. They're not, but the dark night, I mean. I gotta say that Nolan, that's just, in my opinion, like a masterpiece.
Speaker 2:I mean one of the best movies ever made, right right, best trilogy Full stop ever made, totally yeah. I watched the dark night probably once a year. Just to learn. It's just to be like the opening sequence alone. I watch it just to learn how to do movies.
Speaker 1:It gives me chills. Anything Nolan has to stamp on. I like I don't even care what the movie's about Like, I'm just a Christopher Nolan fanboy because, like he does Such good work on on like everything. I don't and I can't tell you what it is. You probably have a lot more experience of like identifying what it is.
Speaker 1:It's probably a multitude of things, but there's just something about the way at all. It's not any one thing. There's so many different elements and I'll tell you, even though the dark night gets all the praise which it Like absolutely should, because that was just a masterpiece, I think a lot of a lot of the? Um, what does not get talked about a lot is the level of foreshadowing and Batman begins to the dark night rises when they tied it all together like that is so understated, like it is not talked about how brilliant Like they they weaved all of that together. I get chills talking about it in the end of time. Um, and I know there's some controversy about the ending of the dark night rises, but Like that to me was the best ending when Alfred Like literally gives the the head nod. Like it, him and Bruce give the head nod at the end and then he's like he found a wife, had a couple of kids, and it was like this fantasy that Alfred had like really dreamed of.
Speaker 1:You know, he's like I want you to come back to Gotham. I didn't want you to do this. I took this holiday hoping that I would see you and we wouldn't say anything to each other and we had both know. We both knew that you made it and I'm like, yeah, how do you like that is the perfect fucking ending. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I didn't love the movie, but now I, I mean, I really appreciate hearing this take on it. Yeah, um, and you, I mean, the ending was beautiful. Yeah, it's so funny, I think what distracted me most and I'm a huge Tom Hardy stan. But Bane was a disappointment and it wasn't even his fault, it was. I couldn't freaking understand him.
Speaker 2:It's like he would be such a good villain if I could hear the words coming out of his mouth Um, but you're right, the ending as you're talking about it, I was. I was like getting a little emotional, it's like yeah that is really beautiful.
Speaker 1:It is like, and, and I'll tell you, michael Caine is like one of the best to ever do it, like he is just One of my?
Speaker 2:yeah, he's Alfred.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I, he's Alfred. There's a debate and we're gonna get back on track here a little bit, but there's a collective I'm a part of, called nrn or non-refungible non-refungible network, and we have this guy who just has Literally the worst takes on Batman, that he's telling me that the new Batman, um, is better than the dark knight trilogy, and I'm just like in what world are you living in, um? Yeah, his main argument is that bail is a better villain than he is a superhero, which he is a really good, I don't disagree, but that's the point of Batman, right, right, so I mean, he's a billionaire who fights crime.
Speaker 2:Instead of like there's some meme, I feel like I saw our tweet of, like what if he just gave a lot of his money to like charity, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you're like, yeah, he's a total villain. Are you kidding me? Right, most movie villain or, like you know, you think of a lot of your typical bond villain or other movie villains, and they're all, a lot of them are rich and they don't fight crime. They do crime, and that's literally Batman is just fighting the crime, you know. So he's a total villain. That's the point, though. It's why it's called the dark knight. It's not just the color, it's the theme, that's right, anyway, that's right, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:So again, I like, I, I'm a few. Any any chance to like, like to, any chance to fade his take, or any chance to like dismiss that publicly. I will always take the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. Yeah, you gotta take your shot.
Speaker 1:That's right, you gotta clap back where you can, that's right, I will. I will never I will. I will die on that hill like I will never, I shall never move from that position. Um, so anyway, yes, we've established that I'm a Christopher Nolan saying. We've established that the dark knight Love it Clearly is the better, you know clearly, clearly, clearly, yes, clearly.
Speaker 2:But I love what I'm so glad you feel that way too and it about movies in general. And it's funny because I Hollywood is such a bubble and everyone knows I used to live in Los Angeles and I still do, but um part time now. But you go there and, like everyone knows, the movie is coming out immediately because for Frank they're all on the billboards and it's just so insulated and you can. It's a bit of a Kool-Aid effect where one person thinks it's cool so you start to right subconsciously ingest that I think it's cool.
Speaker 2:And then you leave that bubble and even New York, which is also a big film hub. It isn't that Dogmatic about what's cool, or? Hot. And you and you talk to people and you do hear a fatigue. Yeah, you hear a fatigue with the same thing. And even the marble stands. And you know I'm not gonna. I watch every marble movie.
Speaker 1:I do too. I do too, but I just don't understand how they all connect. They're so disorganized. They're not. They don't like release an order, they, they tie things together.
Speaker 2:I just don't get it and it's the only thing, it's the, it's the only thing getting made, and what a breath of fresh. I mean a 24 for me is my shining beacon of hope for original cinema. Everything, everywhere, all at once.
Speaker 1:I was literally holding that back to bring that up. Thank you for my god. It was the first movie best. I bought right, I bought a physical copy. I literally bought it, because I remember leaving this, the theater and thinking what a breath of fresh air. I was genuinely entertained from start to finish, and that was just laughed.
Speaker 2:I cried, I learned something, I lost brain cells. It's the best kind of movie. Yes, yes. Ah, so that, and and green night shout out to an austin director.
Speaker 1:I still get to see it. I still have yet to see that. My buddy told me about it. It's yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he told me so good it's.
Speaker 2:It's like a slow Contam, like that's fine. There's definitely some drama, you know, but it's, it's beautiful and it's a really cool. Here's what I'll say about it. I loved it. I loved it start to finish, and the ending is brilliant, and I don't want to spoil it for you, yeah, please don't and I didn't get it until I left the theater.
Speaker 2:I was like walking to my car and then it hit me. I was like wait, this is absolutely genius, right? Uh, but what it what it does? It shows how cool the time we live in and this is what everything everywhere all once did. For me, too, there's a bit of a feeling we have to be careful with this, but I feel it sometimes of this nostalgia Uh, hollywood is, you know? Has it lost its heyday? Yeah, blah, blah, blah yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I missed the past. No, fuck that. Fuck nostalgia. Seriously, yep, I Love yous. Like everything everywhere at once, and green night make me so excited to be a storyteller and a filmmaker today, because it shows the power again. Bringing it all back to technology, green Knight uses visual effects in a way that is so cool that you would only see on a big budget adventure action movie like A Lord of the Rings, right, but you can do it on this sort of art house you know, road tail.
Speaker 2:That's nuts by David Lowry too, is like the indie directing God, and he is getting to use visual effects at that level. What? Yeah? Everything everywhere all at once. The Daniels. Yeah. They are basically self-taught. They watched all the same YouTube series that I did to learn how to be a director, and they tweeted about that recently, which was so cool.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, our film school was every frame of painting. It's amazing YouTube series. That was my film school. That's like this is cool.
Speaker 1:We were literally talking about YouTube University in that same Twitter. So like we got in. This had nothing to do with like anything we're talking about, but it was like YouTube University is like one of the best places to go. You literally do anything, like learn anything. It's incredible, anything. So.
Speaker 2:And that makes me, and again, this whole idea. I'm not, I don't think I'm not someone who's, so I'm unfortunately not that optimistic, so I'm not like, oh, technology will be our savior. No, it's a tool, yeah, and tool can build a fire or start a forest fire. That's right. That's what a tool is. But that's the one thing I do love about the internet. And it's dangerous as it can be, as nasty as it can be, as mean as it can be you can. It's also a space of amazing productivity and connection. Yeah, like what we're doing right here.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly so yeah, YouTube, I love, I watch YouTube probably more than I do live is actually.
Speaker 1:Really. Yeah, no, that's cool, that's really, that's, and I'm. If I'm a maxi of anything, it is technology, I think. Because I'll tell you why is like I never really found something like growing up. You know, we're always we don't know and no one knows like who they want to be when they grow up, even when they're like about like over the 30s. So it's just, you just start to have a better idea of what you like and what you don't like.
Speaker 1:But I remember never feeling like I could contribute to a lot of like what a lot of people were talking about, because I just didn't really care about it. Like I didn't, like I never fit in and a whole lot of like social circles I never like. I was always kind of like I swam. You know I swam for 10 years and I that was like my entire life. And when I wasn't swimming I was playing video games and that was like the only thing I had time to do, because after doing that for so long you're swimming for six hours a day or close to it Like you just don't feel like going out and doing something Like. It's just, I just don't want to fucking do anything. So gaming was a way for me to like to define that community online. It was a way to me either whether it was a campaign, whether it was Master Chief or Gears of War it enabled me to get lost in a story for an extended period of time, to become this person that I really like looked up to. And then the whole internet thing happened and all of a sudden I got to find a bunch of people that did the same thing, that enjoyed the same things I did, and I'll tell you the moment it was that on top of that wasn't even the moment that really did it. For me, that was a huge help and like a building block to like, helping me find my tribe.
Speaker 1:But to why I'm a technology maxi, it was literally when Steve Jobs pulled the iPhone out of his pocket and that, to me, I remember thinking like this device is going to change the world, like this is going to change the way we do everything. And I was like in high school, you know, like I was like barely a sophomore in high school and I was like I couldn't articulate why it was going to change the world. I had no foresight of like how to put that together and like no history to really back that up or experience, like you were mentioning earlier, but I just I remember the feeling that that gave me and so ever since then it's like okay, cool, that has been my avenue Like this everyone obsesses about something, everyone has a tool, everyone has this thing that they enjoy a lot, you know. So if there's any technology that or any tool that I'm like a fan of, it is just like I'm a huge fan of it and so.
Speaker 1:But there was a while in my past where I didn't get to utilize it whole lot. I kind of it was kind of like great, but I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't understand how to capture it. We still didn't really have a mature internet the way we did today, and I didn't go nerd out in any of those forums or chats or anything like that. I didn't do any of that Because, to what you said, it was internet is still a very dangerous place and my parents were super like you know, like they didn't really encourage that Because, again, they felt the same way and they're they want to protect it, not a shot at them. It's just just what it is, you know, and Are they in the backroom listening Right?
Speaker 1:right, you know, my mom actually is getting curious about setting up. We actually had the hardware wallet conversation a couple of weeks ago, so we're, we're getting there. Good yeah, we're getting there.
Speaker 2:I'm working on my parents, too. I'm trying to chisel away and we talked about this before too, but they're like, I'm pretty sure bitcoins used to money launder money for the cartels. I'm like, well, let's, let's, let's, let's do a deep dive. Give me 30 minutes, dedicated minutes. Let me tell you why that is just not true, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a lot of evidence to tell you that, why that's not true. And if they were like how this wasn't because it's not that, it's not that it's not true. It's what they're implying underneath that statement.
Speaker 2:It's exactly, exactly, yeah, it's right, it's what they're implying, of course. So yes, Anyway, sorry to carry you on. No, you're good, You're good I. I interrupt people all the time.
Speaker 1:So it's nice to, it's nice to have a break in the monologue, cause I Lord knows I do them. But to me going back, circling back to like, where I want to dive into a little bit more with, with, is that like?
Speaker 1:to me this felt when I had that moment during the people sale and I had that club. I was in that clubhouse chat where it was just like these people were talking about self sovereignty, a decentralized currency, smart contracts you know, you know you're not, you're not trying to get into your own contracts, you know perpetual royalties, and they were talking about all these things and something that is a public, immutable or unchangeable token and I just it was like that moment where Steve Jobs pulled the iPhone out of his pocket. I had that like same moment, except I had an additional 15 years of like history to show me that like okay, I had this feeling before. I didn't know why. I didn't clearly didn't do anything with it, so that was part of like why Kimmer was like holy shit.
Speaker 1:Now I don't know what I'm going to do with it still, but I'm going to find a way to make something happen, to make my contribution, to be early, because in the, in the current internet that we're in, there's really not that much room for opportunity. Everything is watered down, it's scaled out like all the rewards that were really cool at one point, aren't that? It's just meta. Right now, it's just, it's just the norm. Um, yeah, that's what I found here and I think one of the questions that I do have in in fine, in having our conversation here, one of the areas I had, or one of the curious points I wanted to make, is what has been like one of the main differences between like storytelling and what like. If you could go into a little bit of like telling the story without a community versus telling the story with a community like, what's been like the difference between that or wherever you want to go with that, sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:This is a great question and I also wonder what my answer would be in six months, because it's so different than it was six months ago, or just because we're all learning so much. The space is so new we're all pretty new to it relatively, and so we're all learning a lot about what it means to tell stories in this way. So, with that caveat and with that sort of self-reflection, so I think the big thing I've definitely noticed when you're writing a screenplay or a novel, you know who you're writing it for. So your screenplay and you know the form. You know the form. You know what's expected. Screenplay 120 pages max. You want to send it to a director and to actors. It's the blueprint for the entire film. And the next step is, once you get all those people attached, a unit production manager who basically translates the budget into actionable onset items will go and be like do we really need these two locations? Yeah, a novel you're writing a novel is great because when you finish writing it, it immediately is ready for the audience versus a script.
Speaker 2:You're like it's not the final form. No one reads screenplays. A book, people read books. With Web 3 and this, a big question I had for a long time, was okay, so I have this story world. I created a story Bible for Alzorbala, but what now? It's a really cool Bible, really cool art references, a really great playlist, but what is it? How are people going to engage with it and interact with it? And we have ambitions to turn it into other forms of content. But how do we get it there and how do we tie in the community and what does this all mean? Luckily, and shout out definitely to just Tally Labs, the whole team there.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of people working in the team who really understand Web 3, like a lot of us, you know new to the space but have been in here long enough as sort of taste makers or vibe makers to understand what really makes a special Web 3 product. And paying attention to everything in Twitter and Discord and hearing what everyone has to say about what people don't like or do like or get excited about. And I think the other thing too is what is the real value? Because NFTs are expensive and, yes, we're in a bear market, but they're still very expensive. And what are you actually getting? And I'm not the kind of day trader or NFT trader who, like I've told you before, I've lost money, only money. I've yet to make any money on any NFTs.
Speaker 2:Yeah yep, I could sell. I have a few that are better now, but I don't want to sell them because I care about that.
Speaker 1:Because you bought it, because you like it.
Speaker 2:Because I actually like it, Because I like it, I want to be in the world and I want to participate. But that's a huge barrier for a lot of people. The financial aspect, especially to bear market and crypto, it's also just inflation and also in fiat work. So it's just like so moral of the story. There's a lot that goes into telling. There's a lot that goes into telling a story in this space.
Speaker 2:One thing there are a few North stars and some of these I knew and I brought to the table, and some of these were brought to the table by other people in Tali Labs and I think it's really important to emphasize here how much of a team effort this entire project is Azurbala in particular, but the other ambitions of Tali as well, and the other projects of Tali. It is such a team effort. But with that caveat, one thing I, in conceiving the world of Azurbala, I really wanted to keep in mind and embrace was the chaos of the internet. You're a child of the internet, I'm a child of the internet. We grew up very web native. You know, I in rural Colorado I didn't have a lot of friends, I pretended to be different people on early like style chat rooms, before even video chat rooms.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:And so I just yeah, kind of I used to really embarrass by it, but now I'm not, but I feel like I've come full circle. But you people are chaotic. There are trolls, there are, you know, people with kind of genuine intentions, and everyone in between. That's right.
Speaker 2:And I didn't want to create something that was so dogmatic to one particular story that that chaos couldn't exist, and so the kind of the big thing I wanted to think about was Azurbala. Yes, there's a story and there are big narratives, tentpole pillar moments, and there are big thematic goals that we have with the story. It's very cohesive, I believe, and really set up well already at the beginning. Yeah, yeah, and maybe I'm giving away a lot here, but everything that you're reading has purpose and it all serves a larger story development.
Speaker 1:Yeah, however, I think people though that that are in the project, or most people, are not new to Jenkins.
Speaker 1:Most people are not new to tally labs or anything that tally labs creates, like. I think the reason why y'all are where you're at is because there's been so much delivery on what y'all have set out to do and people. There's so many Easter eggs that are placed throughout the entire journey and I think everyone, at this point at least I'm not going to say everyone, but for the most part people who are like any, have any involvement with the writer's room understand that there is nothing that is not intentional, whether it's the way things are said Love that.
Speaker 1:Love that Love when information's released, the execution, like how it's done. I mean there is just if you really want to nerd out or go down a rabbit hole. I mean there is so much to undone. I can't. It's hard for me to explain this project to people because it's like to me I'm just like it's so cruel but trying to like package this up in a nice bow to like tell someone who doesn't even know what a wallet is. It's hard to tell them. Right. But anyway, keep going like that, no it's so funny.
Speaker 2:I feel like I have my pitch down for the web tours out there Is there a good nickname for people who haven't aped in yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not just yeah, the normies, yeah, normies or web zeros, or you know like Web zeros, the web zeros forever.
Speaker 2:That's great. So anyway, it's a city. Ozarebala is a city and what that means is in a city you have amazing, even if you think of New York City and if you want to just go with a weird metaphor, in New York City there's the film Gangs of New York there's also the film Serendipity. You know what I mean. The point is there can be romcoms and there can be gangster movies and crime movies and action movies and I'm using movie here as a metaphor, but really story, that's Ozarebala.
Speaker 2:I want to leave space for epic villains, as much as I do great romcoms, as much as I do social justice, whatever it is. And so I really wanted to a huge kind of North Star was embrace the chaos, Don't be scared of some wild outlier taking it in a random direction. Make space for that, yeah, and empower people to explore that. And yes, of course there's still these big ten-pole moments, but all that chaos still works within the larger conceit and idea and intention around the story beats that we're going to put out there. So that's first and foremost and the second is in Jenkins and Tallylabs already did it with the book.
Speaker 2:So it's that and then the other future ambitions we have for content and character creation as well. But one of the things we really want to emphasize this we want your Azurian to be a character to you that you develop and that we help you develop, and we're working on products and tools right now to enable that. But we really believe in the future of a decentralized content development arm or development community and we want to empower not just our own projects and stories but anyone else who has a story world and they want to empower their community too. We want to help you. That's the point of decentralization.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And we believe that a great story starts with great character. You can't you and I will fight this point you cannot tell a great story without a great character. That's right. That's storytelling 101. And we are story, we are character first, and by putting character first we will find stories together.
Speaker 1:I love that and you know it's funny. There's a lot of, there's a lot of things that connected when you were mentioning that number one. Start with the most recent like being the character first. Like Jenkins is literally the character like it is. It is always been character first before. I just love exactly how that has like been one of the North stars and Ben one of like the, the or the North star of the foundation, whichever one, however you want to call it, but of like where this thing is built on or where this thing is headed, because that has always been true, with or without tally labs, and I just think that's really beautiful, yeah like how, that, how, that's still how how you guys function and how you guys operate.
Speaker 2:That's a totally that's a really good. It's why I, it's why I got it side interrupt, but I just I want to. It's why I wanted to work with the tally labs team in the first place. I had been. I got into Web three. The first few NFTs I thought were to support artists that I love, or for kind of political reasons, like pussy riot and all the amazing work that that she does, and I was obsessed with her.
Speaker 2:So, and then I started paying attention to a few projects that positioned themselves as being sorry. First, and I'm not going to throw any shade on these projects Storytelling is really hard. The space is really hard. However, the stories didn't work for me. And I found myself wondering why am I not engaged by any of these stories, like, what is it that they're missing? Yeah, and then I started paying attention to Jenkins and a light bulb went off and it was. None of them have character. Right.
Speaker 2:It's cool lore, it's a cool world. But what's the emotional draw in? Jenkins is so excited to be the yacht at the board apioclet. This is first big job. It ate from the wrong side of the tracks made it. How amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or wrong side of the swamp, yeah, and then he's going to do a tell all that. First of all, emotional core, right, his first big job. And then, as a valet, he's seen some shit go down. Right, it's a spence, will hook, right, oh my god. Yeah, and you're just. It was like right. None of these projects that I've been looking at. They don't have character, that's the problem.
Speaker 1:That is the problem. I would have never. That's actually really. I learned something every time I talk with people here because that's I just consistently try to find people that are like real, like that are really good at what they do and just like a lot of my questions are incredibly selfish.
Speaker 1:It's just I'm like super curious and so like I always try it like that is a really good way to put it and I'll probably never look at another project the same, because you know that makes a lot of sense, because I think humans intuitively know that they don't connect with something or that. But it's really hard to put like, put a why behind it, like why is it that I don't connect with this and that, like I'm sure I'll think about it more. But even on the spot, just some of the projects like it's just like well, yeah, there's not really, and it's cool that there's lore Lore is a piece of it, but if there's nothing to, if there's no centerpiece, if there's no, right then it all go, that it doesn't make any sense, yeah what's the emotion?
Speaker 2:That's, that's the big, I think. I think the big thing, that big piece of advice I would give to any writer, including myself. Sometimes I forget a story is not in your head. Stories in your heart. Later, if you do your job right as a storyteller, people will think about the story later and realize the deeper meaning and the bigger themes and the Algorie, all of that In the moment, while they are experiencing the story. You need to, you need to engage and activate their heart. That's what. That's what a story is.
Speaker 1:I love that, yeah, and I never. Until this, until I engaged here, I never understood like it, I never understood the importance of storytelling. I was always so frustrated about, like you know, why did this person get this and I didn't? Or why is it sometimes? Sometimes it's not about what's right, it's who can tell the best story, you know. And like it took me a thing, it took me a while to realize a book is a story, a movie is a story, an animated series is a story. What we're doing is telling a story.
Speaker 1:Twitter anything they post on Twitter is a story. Instagram is a story. I'm like holy shit that is. It took me a long time to like really understand. When we have conversations with our loved ones or friends, we're telling stories, and it took me a long time to realize. I guess what I'm trying to say is like it hit this space finally, hit the nail on the head of like what people really want, and that's a good story. We enjoy stories. There's no right or wrong. It's who, it's who's got the best story. Now you can you can compile right and wrong facts and do all the things, but everything in its essence is just a. It's just a story and even in our toughest moments, which I'm going to tie this into, one of my favorite points that I love that you're incorporating is the chaos of. I love how you're baking in the chaos of Web three because it's, in my opinion, the artists that have done really good here are people who capture the culture of what's happening here, who capture these moments, whether they're positive or whether they're negative.
Speaker 1:They, they, they capture that moment and they have a visual or audible or sometimes a multitude of different types of represent ways to represent that or present that. So I love that you're like capturing, like the Wild Wild West spirit of Web three.
Speaker 1:Because there's if you, if you didn't, it wouldn't. I don't think it would resonate as much because there's just it's special because of playing on the meme, which is true of being early, like people are going to want to consume content that they walk through, like I think that's the coolest part about Web three is that so very, very well said yeah, we are early, but we also know we're early and we know, like, we're in a Renaissance, but we know we're in a Renaissance.
Speaker 1:You look at any Renaissance and art and culture that happened in the past. There wasn't this collective mind that really understood where they were at, like, there was no chatter, you know, there was no way to bring everyone together to talk about this, like, what are we doing here? Is it, which is kind of incredible, that it happened without that? That's a whole nother conversation is that? It's kind of cool that that should just happen without really any organization of people, which is insane. But I think that's the difference now is that there is we have the awareness that we're early and people really even like I was in a podcast the other time Like people are going to people have already mentioned wanting to hear movies and stories about, like, the times that we had here and all the struggles and the hardships and the funny moments that we went through. So I just it's a roundabout way of saying like I really love that you guys incorporated that Now obviously my dog does too Into I know, hi, I know Like, can we get a little?
Speaker 2:can we see, you know? But I can, I can.
Speaker 1:She's, she's in her crate right now, so she's, you know, I will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's just hearing you and getting jealous. Okay, great, I'll hold it down for the rest of us. I don't want Boona to miss out on anything. Oh, hold on, let's go, say hi. Wait, what's your pup's name? Princess Leia. Of course it is yes.
Speaker 1:And she very much, and she very much understands, I think I think she, I think she, I think she understands her name so cute, like really, yeah, she leans into it. She very much leans into it.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, she's a princess. As we know, she was parking. She's like let me out, princess wants out. I love it. We don't have a dog yet, but I definitely want one, and I would also name my dog after a cinema character, Totoro. Oh, I don't know if you're a Hayao Miyazaki fan, but I'll be honest.
Speaker 1:I'm not, so I'm not going to act like I am. I could but. I'm not a fan, I just never heard of it.
Speaker 2:So well for you, hayao Miyazaki. Miyazaki stands out there. Totoro is the name of my future pup, which is weird to be like another name before the pup. So I'm like not weird? Saying open to.
Speaker 1:OK, not weird at all.
Speaker 2:But one thing, one thing I wanted to mention based off what you said about the kind of being in the space. I think it's really interesting and you know, in America right now it's voting is.
Speaker 2:I feel like at a forefront of some. I mean, my personal inbox is full of people hitting me up for money for their campaigns, right, right Like, and I think what I find really interesting is what I'm seeing in Web three is just an opting in and a community driven effort to create a community and organization and a way of functioning and it's so funny. It feels like America politics. Let's not even go down that sad rabbit hole.
Speaker 2:It's a very sad one, but it feels like it's so sad and it just feels like a lot feels broken right now. But then you do look at something like Web three and it's just interesting to see how, with no rules and a totally opt in situation, the amount of organization, collaboration, communication and community goodwill that's happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's even more of a mind fuck to think how, you know, I've met some of the people now because of NYC entity, but I haven't met a lot of them and I have formed bonds with people that I've never met face to face. And there's trust, especially, you know. I would hope that a lot of people trust Tally Labs and I do think the team, specifically Valley Jones and SOF. I've done a really good job of caring a lot about the community and broadcasting their intentions to keep that trust, which is so interesting to think that such trust can exist among relative strangers.
Speaker 1:That's right, and one of the one of the key points in that is that we are building a trustless system because it that right. So which is insane? Crazy, it's insane. So the irony of a trustless system is that it takes away. It doesn't and I say those are the huge caveat Like it doesn't take away. Like humans being bad people, it doesn't take away. Like great, it doesn't take away. Selfish, it doesn't take away.
Speaker 1:But what it does is a step in the right direction to align incentives. It is a step in the right direction to take some of the elements of greed out of it, to incentivize people to do the right thing, because guess what? It's public Right, it's unchangeable, like, if you really believe in this, you also are going to believe that all of your actions are recorded, you know. And so if you genuinely are trying to make a difference here, if you genuinely believe in this, then Just as a macro not even what we're like, just on a large scale or talking about you're going to be incentivized more to do the right thing. Now the choice is still up to you on whether you want to do it or not.
Speaker 2:Exactly Because automatically fix or solve.
Speaker 1:You know all the world's problems, the many that we have, or even in America, the many problems that we have. So what I wanted to talk about and I think it's going to be really valuable to talk about here is that I have a friend who I've known for a long time, probably close to 10 years or nine years and you know he was talking to me about a lot of the current events that are happening in the world, and you know how like upset he is, but also how helpless he feels to like contribute, to like try to like do something about it. And he was like what do you think about that? And I just said, well, whether it's to my detriment or not, like I have gone so far down in this rabbit hole here in Web 3 and what I'm doing with this podcast and being invested in artists and creatives and talent, that I don't really.
Speaker 1:I don't really know everything that's going on, and I, partially, I do choose to stick my head in the sand a little bit, but at the same time, though, what I know is that my best, my talents, are best utilized here my time and energy, which is the one resource that we all have. It's the most scarce resource of all is better spent like lifting other artists up and helping elevate the stories of people who are trying to tell stories to do some good, you know. So that is like that's where I choose to spend my time and energy not to read all these politics and to understand policy and to understand how this is different from history, like I'd rather do what I'm good at, what I enjoy, and kind of like help lift people up who are telling really important stories, who could technically influence you know that's my take on it Is that like part of it is ignorance, like willful ignorance, but also it's just like I don't like we talking about it and reading about it isn't going to make any sense.
Speaker 2:Like, what does it do? It's so funny we have. So I'm, I read everything. Unfortunately for my mental health, I read way too much news, and I try and read all sides too, and just to keep so I don't get it too much in any one bubble. And you know I'm, my brother is a scientist, so I definitely you know science for me is sort of the Norse, and what I love about science is a constant reinvention and constant having to re prove. Nothing's ever set in stone because it could always be disproved tomorrow.
Speaker 2:So I like that ethos in general, but I read it all, and then my husband, on the flip side, doesn't read any of it at all, and we've gotten into some pretty heated discussions about why aren't you reading more? Blah, blah, blah. And it's so funny because then the question inevitably comes up well, what are you doing with all this horrible knowledge about how the world's going to hell in a hand, like, what are you actually doing with it? To which I respond basically the bare minimum of what a citizen can do, which is like, though, sometimes give money, but it doesn't matter anyway. I don't know. And I continue to be reminded of something really important, which is, first of all, there's so much stuff screaming for our attention Instagram, tiktok, our jobs. If you have kids, your parents like whatever it is, your bills, your daughter, prince of.
Speaker 2:Leia like there's a lot that's vying for our attention and you're absolutely right that there's only so many hours a day and what you choose to do with those hours, that's literally your life. It's literally your life. So what are you going to do? And for me I'm reminded of Rod Serling, who wrote the Twilight Zone, and for me it's like what to do with all the things I'm reading and ingesting and absorbing which are negative and a lot.
Speaker 2:Rod Serling in the 1950s he created the Twilight Zone. Before that, he wanted to tell a story that was about the Red Scare in America. If you were even accused of being a communist in Hollywood, you would be blacklisted and maybe even arrested and then also the racial violence that was going on in the South. He wanted basically to do a story about Emmett Till in Hollywood Studios. At the time we're like no, too risky, we won't do it. So then he created the Twilight Zone and he turned the communists into aliens and I don't remember what he did with the kind of racial undertones, but something else. Where it was, maybe it was the invasion. Oh, here's like something about body snatchers with communists and aliens with racism.
Speaker 2:And once it became sci-fi, first of all the studio executives, network executives, green led it. Now it's a very popular show, one of the best sci-fi shows ever. But also he was able to talk about these really big issues in a way that people could actually absorb. We're already absorbing so much negativity. We're already absorbing so much that's heavy on our minds and on our souls. You know, it's not that fun. Also using our entertainment hours to watch something that's just going to make us breath.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make us laugh, yeah.
Speaker 2:What good does that actually do? And I'm not so noble that I think, oh, the stories I'm telling will change the world. I don't know, but what I will say about Azerbaijan is there's a lot going in here in creating a world that's really interesting, that examines things I certainly have a point of view on, but I'm equally interested what your point of view on it might be or what you know. Another user in India or Japan or Georgia or New York, like all these different people, will have different points of view on a similar theme or similar event. And by being able to sort of play around with it on a fantasy or sci-fi level, I think it's a lot more productive to actually triggering insightful and impactful conversations and maybe even changing opinions, for opinions should be adjusted. I think you see, on Twitter, no one is getting their mind changed from something political.
Speaker 1:And you could even zoom out of like no one's getting their mind changed on anything on Twitter, right On anything.
Speaker 2:So I think that there's a really cool opportunity, and I don't know if it's going to take this turn, but what I'm really interested to see and what I really want to be cognizant of leaving space for is just allowing people to have points of view that are controversial or that are different from mine. And you know what? I'm going to have a burner wallet with my Anazurian. I'm going to buy and create a character and sew some chaos too Like I want to have fun there as well. That's right.
Speaker 2:So I just think there's a greater opportunity for actual impact when you make it, when you turn it into an allegory, and you can have some fun with it and it may. You may change your mind on something in the most surprising way by being a villain. Suddenly it gives you insight into a whole other way of thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to make that our ending point here. I'm going to leave people with that.
Speaker 2:So good ending point.
Speaker 1:I think, so too, I think it's really good I think that's like the perfect way to end this, and the only thing I'm going to add here is I just want to give you another opportunity to like, tell people like where to find you, or like where can they find your work, like where are you the most active? Where do you want people to go?
Speaker 2:essentially, Love it. Thank you too. So please check out my Web Zero work. It's on Netflix. It's called the Waterman. Very soon, hopefully, you'll be able to see the film I directed that Ferreira Treybeck. It's called Life Rendered. In the meantime, catch me on Twitter at Emily Adele. Same with Instagram, same with LinkedIn. On Discord also, I'm at evil monster dog, very active in the Azarbala Jenkins riders room communities. You can always tag me. I'm trying to do my best job possible responding to everybody. So if I don't just not you, it's me. I'm literally just busy. But I'm really excited, especially when Azarian's launch to begin creating this world together and crafting characters together.
Speaker 1:So, emma, this has been a treat. It's been insightful, it's been a lot of fun to get to know you and to talk about some really cool things that I didn't know you'd connect on, so it has been a fun time here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, Buna. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Schiller Vaulted podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. As we close out today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite audio platform and leave a five star review to ensure you never miss an episode and to help others discover the Vaulted podcast as well. To stay updated on upcoming episodes, as well as our weekly Twitter space schedule, be sure to follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Schiller XYZ. Once again, thank you for tuning in and remember if you're looking for it. Art is everywhere and it's up to us to appreciate and explore the emotions it brings to our lives. Until next time, this is Buna signing off.