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VAULT3D: Anjali Young - Fostering Community, and the Evolution of Collabland
Anjali, co-founder of Collabland, brings to light the fascinating story behind a tool that's now a cornerstone of the Web3 space. Anjali's narrative is a blend of trials, triumphs, and the kind of steadfast conviction needed when you're early to a movement.
As we navigate the digital landscape together with Anjali, we uncover the intersections where personal crypto encounters meet strategic business insights. The revelations shared offer a peek into the genuine hustle required to champion a startup and how nurturing a community can lead to more connected and equitable digital futures.
From the inception of a DAO to aid pandemic sufferers, to the strategic avoidance of a Series A funding round in favor of community alignment, to the innovative NFT sale that turned fans into stakeholders—every chapter of this tale is a lesson in shaping an ecosystem where participation translates to ownership.
The importance of online data ownership, the role of financial incentives in driving community engagement, and the thrilling prospects of a decentralized future are all on the agenda in this enlightening episode. Join us, as Anjali and I chart the course through the transformative waves of NFTs, DAOs, and the very essence of Web3 itself.
Anjali links:
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/damaderoca
Collabland:
linktree: https://linktr.ee/collab_land_
SHILLR:
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GM, this is Boone and you're listening to Vaulted, a Web3 podcast series from the Shuler Archives. This episode was originally recorded on April 18, 2022 and features Anjali, Young, co-founder of Collabland. In this episode, we discussed the origin story and inspiration behind building Collabland, the challenges of balancing work and personal life in Web3, the importance of data ownership and much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and guest, my own NFTs discussed. Now it's time to grab some coffee and dive into this combo with Anjali. All right, and I didn't ask you this before. Gm, how do you pronounce your name?
Speaker 2:Thank you for asking previous to starting and talking. It's Anjali Anjali. Like the A in Adele or the A in America. In the past I've said the A like America and people will just call me America. So now I've started saying like the A, like in Adele, it's Anjali Anjali.
Speaker 1:Young Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I like it, I know, but I didn't want to call you young. I didn't like that, like, just like your last name, like I didn't want to call you just young. Anjali GM, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good to be here.
Speaker 1:It is. It is, I heard.
Speaker 2:You met at South by and I just was really charmed by you, so I was excited that you invited me for this conversation.
Speaker 1:I, you know that was one of my. That was like it was with. You were on also with Justin Taylor and and Buster, and that was, yes, that was a really fun panel. And you, you know, like, when you were up there, I'm like, oh my God, I've never known, I've never been able to put a face to you know the project that you're involved in or the company that you're involved in, and so I'm like, oh cool, this is like this person plays a very, very, very important role and she's got a lot of good things to say. Let's go have a conversation like some more, because I think this is going to be a blast. And so I didn't, I didn't spoil it, but I want to let you tell everyone you know a little about you. Like, who are you? What do you do?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I'm Anjali Young, I am co-founder and chief community officer for a bridge, and we are the makers of Collabland.
Speaker 1:Love it. You, you again, you guys play a massive, massive role in in this Web three community. And so, let's, let's wind it back a little bit though, because I want to know, you know, because I'm always curious for the people especially that are building these foundational tools, I want to, I like knowing a little bit about what got you here. So, like, whatever comes to mind, let's run with that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love talking about what got us here, because we're in a position where people are asking us how we got here, and so, as you're getting there, it's even being here. It's a grind, it's work. It's just constantly just in the dark doing the work, and so the fact that you're asking me how I got here makes me feel great.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2:Like everybody else, maybe every other project that's been around for a while, there were a lot of dark days. We started in 2018 as no code tooling, so at that time there were there were no people in crypto like casual people in crypto, people that were just hanging out and wanting to talk about it.
Speaker 2:That just wasn't a thing. It was just literally the people who were believers that this may someday be a thing. We may not even see it in our lifetime, but we want to be a part of it. That was the movement at that time. So my husband he's a developer, now CEO of the company. He developed this technology for no code tooling. So he said why don't we bring people developers that are not in crypto now, instead of them having to learn about our ways? They can use our no code tools and they can build apps?
Speaker 2:The way we think about it now is, like you know, building, like the infrastructure of a town or a city, like you need buildings, you need the houses so people can move in. So we're like, okay, let's do this no code tooling. So then maybe people will start building these houses and then we'll start getting some residents. However, because there's nobody interested in it, nobody talking about bear market. Bear market I don't even know what bear market really means, but bear market. So there's not any buzz, there's no hype, there's no interest, there's nothing. So we couldn't get any traction that way. Nobody wanted to come over and start building tools for crypto. When why?
Speaker 1:Nothing was there. Yeah, why exactly?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have to like believe that people will come, because this is the superior technology. This is the way you have to have believed that in order to try to start to move at all right to be building.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So that's the tooling that was starting in 2018. And then, you know, no VC money, nobody interested, nothing like just trying to scrap together, of course, passionate group of people who are all very, very tight and close. Now, the loyalty of the people that were there at that time, it exists and it's a beautiful thing to witness. But, you know, it was just kind of just chugging along Then in spring of 2020, that's when COVID COVID happened, right.
Speaker 1:Weird as ugly head, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:And so we started a DAO called the Collab 19 DAO, and that DAO was to bring together people to get money together and then read your stupid out to victims of COVID. And victims of COVID was a real thing. Then you know now we're seeing two years later and you had COVID. I got COVID like just going to a conference. We knew we were going to get it. We did it anyway.
Speaker 1:It was a different time.
Speaker 2:It was a different time, and so then it's like how do we get all the people who have shares in this DAO together to discuss the proposals beforehand?
Speaker 2:Got it Okay, and so we started off, collabland was just a DAO tool. It was to get everybody that's in a DAO together in a chat together so you can talk about proposals, you can do some flipping, you can, you know, have your influence, and then you go and vote on the blog chain so it's like updates for for DAOs Anyway. So that was like the first use case and once other DAOs started seeing it, you know every at that time the DAO communities were pretty small and super small because they're not that big now and so I can.
Speaker 1:When you say small, I'm just like wow that people all the same everywhere yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah. This is a cool tool. I'm going to use it for my DAO and I'm going to use it for my day.
Speaker 2:So then of course, dao wasn't the same thing that DAO is now, but at that time it that was the first like I'm not going to say product market fit, because there wasn't much of a market, but that was the first like spark. That's what captured the imagination of these DAOs, like, oh, we can do this and we can get together with these people. And now this person isn't just zero X, one, five, nine, three, eight, like that's that's Kyle, and oh, and now I, you know. So anyways, started off on telegram.
Speaker 2:That's where Collablin started on telegram, and then, after DAOs, investment groups started using it like Unilevel Karma DAO, like there were different super interesting groups that started for deal flow, so it was like oh, if you own these tokens, you can get into this telegram group and now we're going to talk together about what the other deals that are going on Like.
Speaker 2:Now you have NFT alpha groups right, right, right, right, and it was like that's what we call in really NFT alpha groups, their deal flow right, we can call them deal flow on some level right, and so that was deal flow. It became like a deal flow, a way to get access to deal flow. And then after that, social tokens Alex, mads, mads I don't know if you know him you should know him. He's wonderful. He started a social token called Alex where you could buy the token and then you're kind of funding his move from Europe to America to start a web three company. He has a web three company now called Showtime.
Speaker 1:I know Showtime Yep, yep yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's Alex, and so he used Collablin for his people who had the Alex token. So that was kind of the first social token application and then after that, other social tokens started using it friends with benefits, you know different communities like that. This is still before NFTs. Nfts were still well, social tokens okay, like maybe that's going to be, that's what's going to bring more people in social tokens, like that was kind of the thought process for that period of time before the whole NFT tidal wave.
Speaker 2:I don't know, avalanche, I don't know what you call it Anyway and then in the spring of 20, oh, okay, so, sorry, so where was I? Oh, so, in January of 2021, we got funding, we got a seed series, or a series seed in January of 2021. And that was awesome. After that, it was okay, we're going to be able to like, really do this, like this can be a real company, like you're going to get a paycheck and then we're going to be able to hire people and we're going to be able to really grow this. And how are we going to grow this? What are we going to do? Before NFTs, the idea was still to do Dow tooling, because even though it's oh sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:You know it's really wild, though Like I'm going to take a pause here January 2021,. I cannot think of a better time to get funding, because you probably had no idea what was coming. That was like two months before the people sale. It was like three to four months before the board aids. I mean, cryptopunks were still there, but it was a very. They hadn't exploded. They were rising but it hadn't hit that meteoric rise that it hit. I just had to, like that came up as you were talking. I'm like you guys had no fucking clue Like what was on the horizon.
Speaker 1:Anyway okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I just want to say? Feel free to say like stop me, because like. I've said, I love to express myself. I love to express myself. I'm so excited to have someone that wants to hear my story Like all of that. So if you do find a spot you're like, hold on, just I get it.
Speaker 1:I will.
Speaker 2:Yes. January of 2020, our seed investors were very much like all right, like this might be a thing, just here. Here's a small bit of money. We raised a million and a half dollars from seven investors, and it was more like just experiment, just play, like just just play.
Speaker 1:Figure it out, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just see what it can be. We don't know what it's going to be, but this seems like you know what you're talking about. You know? You seem like you're adults in the room, Like let's just, let's just see right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, everyone's excited at that point and it's just, you know, it's the markets has we had DeFi, summer right, and so it's like it's just exciting that now it's like picking up and people are just willing to take some chances. So that was January 21. Anyway, so yeah, when NFTs first started coming out, I was contacting on Twitter Like I saw a couple of NFT communities started using collab and I was like wait, what's going on? I'm like, oh, this is a cool way for NFTs people, collectors to get together Like they can do the social token.
Speaker 2:They can do the social token thing and they can do this Dow thing Like this is so cool, I love this. And so I was literally Kyle on on Twitter. I was DMing every new NFT project and I was saying, hey, there's this thing called collab land. You can get all your token holders in a group together. Everyone who has your NFT like you can get them together and you can be with them. Do you want to use it?
Speaker 2:I was literally begging every new project to use it and then after a while I oh and I was even doing like this community, community like snapshot, like, because every person agreed to use collab land.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, I'm gonna use it, yeah, yeah, this is awesome, thank you, thank you, right, and so anyway. So I was doing that and I was like calling or not calling, but like anyway, I could get into these communities to act like there was no community, just Twitter, like just begging people to use it, and then after a while, like there was nobody that wasn't using it. That's right, it's a shift for me, like it went from me having to ask everyone to use it to everyone saying, oh yeah, we're already using it.
Speaker 2:That's right, and one day and I was like what, okay, like now I need to, you know, move in a different direction. I don't do that job anymore.
Speaker 1:And when I what I I really want to highlight this because I don't think people whether in web two, web three, this is just a, this is just a part of building something from the ground up is that, like, when you're like people want something that's different, but in order to start something that's different, you have to like, you have to be willing to take so much heat and put in all this legwork to convince something people of something that doesn't even exist yet or that's very early in existence, that it's going to work, that it's going to happen. Like no one wants DMs of the same shit over and over and over. Like I get DMs for projects that like, yeah, I think this could really benefit us. I'm like no, this could benefit you for coming on the show. Like I'm not interested in whatever the hell you're doing but, you have given me nothing of interest.
Speaker 1:If you're reaching out to me and that's been one of the things that has like now that I look back at it, whether I is in my esports journey before web three or in the podcasting now is that you know I I made the DM so little about what it was going to do for me and everything about what it was going to do for them, and I think people really don't understand how valuable that is, because DMs everyone's everyone's sensitive to sales. Everyone's only got so much time and everyone has this different mindset of, like, trying something new and are they going to sell me something malicious or are they? Are they just pumping their own bags? Right? And I think it's really important to highlight what you did. It's like begging people to use this product that you thought was going to work, that you knew was going to work.
Speaker 2:You know, and be really good for them, and like it's going to be cool. Just try it. I think it's going to be cool. That's right and I didn't even think about it. It's interesting that you say, like what you just said, because I didn't think of it that way at all, cause I wasn't selling anything. No it was more like hey, this might be a cool fun toy for your project that's right, right.
Speaker 1:This could be fun for you, but the key were. The key part was that it was nothing about you, it was. It was. It was all for them. It's not like what, and it wasn't for you trying to disguise it as what it could be for them. It wasn't, it was. Try this thing, let's see if it works.
Speaker 2:Try this thing. I think this thing is really cool. Dows are using it and social tokens are using it.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:NFTs could use it too, and I think it could be really cool. Right Now it is it stopped being a thing I had to do anymore. It stopped being a thing I had to ask people to do. That was when I talk about it. That was one of those moments.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you, though, in a weird way, do you miss being on the ground and hustling your own product out? Do you miss any part of that? It?
Speaker 2:feels that way, but in a different way. I don't feel like it's still humble. My job is still very humble.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:There's still a lot of convincing and it's still all there. It's just not that anymore. That was a win. All this other stuff now, it's hard to really quantify as a winner or a loss. That moment I can point to and say that was a win. That was a win that I felt in my body.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and the reason I ask that is because it's part of my favorite part of building this podcast. It's like reaching out, putting in the groundwork, putting in the legwork and getting that yes or getting that response. It is literally the best feeling in the entire world. I don't know if you can relate, but it is like I've even had people approach me to say, hey, we're a service to help you get more guests on the show, and I'm like that's my favorite part of this. I don't want you to. I'm not going to pay you to take away what makes me happy, right, I fucking love what I do, yeah, and so I had to ask that selfishly, because that's literally one of the favorite parts is the outreach and finding someone I think is doing cool shit or not think, but find someone that's doing cool shit and say, hey, let's do some cool shit together.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, and your job is just the best.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So it's like when you get that connection, when you meet someone that works, it's like oh, you're, I, it's the longest. I know what you're doing. It's really your like, similar to what I was doing. He's just following your passion, yeah. Like you're saying this is cool. Do you want to do this cool thing with me?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and if you can portray that, if you can find ways to say that it's, it's magical, I want so I want to rewind a little bit, even before I look at 18, right, so, because I'm I'm curious, because, like, just my context is that in 2014, 2015, like I was I was aware of crypto. I like I'm pretty sure I bought a couple dollars of something, just just to like say I did it, you know, but I this is coming from a video game person. I'm like y'all are a bunch of fucking nerds. Like I don't know what this is. Like this seems really dumb, like I don't know why it has value, but it just has value and I didn't see any sort of use case. I'm like, where do I use this? Why does this have so much value?
Speaker 1:What's the hype around this? But I wasn't willing to learn the hype. I wasn't willing to learn why this was so special. What was, like some of your like, when was like your first moment into crypto in general? Like, was it like in the early days? Or like, kind of, tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Well, my husband, who I have, this we have. I have two co-founders. My husband is one of my co-founders. Yeah, yeah. Raymond Fang he's our CTO and he's our co-founder. My husband has just been into it from the beginning, got it. My husband is a dreamer and he's been into lots of different things, and so for me I was like, and part of being with him and living this life together is to support each other's passions no matter what.
Speaker 1:As long as they're not hurting anybody.
Speaker 2:And so I was like okay, crypto, this is just another thing. But it wasn't until Ethereum, like with Bitcoin, we had some business. Like with Bitcoin, we had some Bitcoin. There was a use case for it. Early on, my dad's business was like extorted.
Speaker 1:And so, and then they were was extorted by Bitcoin.
Speaker 2:People that wanted.
Speaker 1:Bitcoin.
Speaker 2:So they had like trapped all of his data and manufacturing and anyway. And so then he called us and he's like what do we do? Like how am I going to get this back? They want a Bitcoin. And we're like oh, yeah, yeah, okay, we'll give you Bitcoin. And so it was half a Bitcoin at that point. It was so cheap, right, when you think about it. But this is where our that was the real world usage of Bitcoin. Otherwise, there wasn't any right. And so then we got a credit card with it and we bought a cup of coffee with one Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:So wild that is so wild to think about that.
Speaker 2:At the time we're like, oh, this is awesome, like you know, and you don't realize that this is going to happen. But Bitcoin, yeah, it was just more of a academic interest, like, oh, this is just something interesting. We were not minors, we were not pursuing it in any other field. Actually, he's from gaming and I was at that time before starting to do this with him. I'm a lawyer, but also we adopted our children. My daughter has special needs. I've homeschooled her and my son. So that's kind of been the focus of my life, like adoption, attachment and homeschooling my children. So I'm a partner to him, to James, and we're talking together about this. But it's not our business, it's not work, it's not. It's just kind of an interesting yeah, and it wasn't until 2016, where he was working.
Speaker 2:After gaming, he moved to the ad tech industry and he's like, oh, you know, there's an opportunity here to use crypto for ad tech, and so he wrote the white paper with some other people for token it's so insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in 2016, to have that vision Toque curated registries. That's insane.
Speaker 2:That's where that started. And then, after that started, it was like moving full time into working in crypto. And then it wasn't until 2018 where it was like, oh, let's do something together, let's see what you know, let's try to follow our own passion. And it was because of crypto at that point that you know we had some money and so then you can. You know just a logistics of life, like how do you keep doing startups? You have to, like, make money one way and then fund your startup.
Speaker 2:And so it was like made some money in crypto. And then finally was like, oh, now we can fund to hire some engineers of our own and we can keep this business going every month. And so that was in 2018. But then still, it was a long, hard road and it was just all of you know our money, but it never felt like a risk, like it felt inevitable, and I don't know why that is, but I think in order to be early on something, to be early on anything, it's like it has to just feel like it's the right thing, because if you don't think it's the right thing, then it's easy to get out of it, but if you something unlocks for you where you feel this is the way, this is better, so this will win.
Speaker 2:That's right Once you have that and you have that, kyle. Once you have that, then the hard times. And that's why I'm saying bear market. What's a bear market? When you're thinking of the future, and during the bear market, that's when you know the noise leaves the room and everyone's like I love bear markets.
Speaker 1:I love because it gets my Twitter feed gets a lot quieter and it gets a lot more genuine again and I'm like, oh, thank God sometimes, like I enjoy it. I enjoy the social aspect.
Speaker 2:For who right? It's not a bear market for the movement, it's a building time for the movement.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So yeah anyway. So it was a lot of that until it became this. I mean it's not an instant success, it's not an overnight success. I mean our first real like discussion about what Collabland was going to be was right during social tokens. And then it's like NFTs starting to get momentum and people are wanting more support on NFTs and it's like wait a minute, I thought we were going to stick with Dow tooling, that's right.
Speaker 2:And I'm saying, no, we're not doing Dow tooling. Listen to me, this is something and I want to be a part of it, so let's grow wider. So now we support, you know, 13 different blockchains and over a dozen different wallets. But it's like, at that point, do we want to cater to this? This, the NFT movement, like do we want to support this? And I'm like can we? Can we, can we, because, look, this is who we're getting the most people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:He's saying, like, but it's not the most interesting tech. You know he's a developer and he's like I'm not in this to like, do the boring thing I'm in this to oh my gosh, my seat just went down. Sorry about that, right? Anyway, it's like I don't want to do that, like I'm here to build, I'm here to be exciting, I'm here to be fun stuff and I want to, and this is boring, this is easy, anybody could do this.
Speaker 2:That's the end. That's what he's saying at that point and I'm saying and I'm saying, no, let's, let's just see where this goes. Let's just see where this goes, because the idea, like I'm a community person, like I've always been a part of online communities, I started on the internet when, in 1992, like when I was in high school and I used to dial up a real pioneer of the internet like that that I love.
Speaker 1:That yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:You know I used to dial up to a BBS and it was all text and you know we'd use Macro, meant like these images and anyway. So I was dialing up and in these relationships and I just love online community. So after that then I was on live journal. Like I processed my entire adoption on live journal because I was like because it took about five years for me to like even get to the point. I was like I'm going to adopt, I'm not going to adopt, I'm going to adopt.
Speaker 2:It's like I had to go through every revolution of it and or evolution of it. And it was because of live journal and the community of people I met on live journal adoptive parents and adoptees who I'm still in relationship with, like kids who are, you know, teenagers on the internet, who were just adoptees. And I'm like a perspective adoptive mom and I'm like tell me about your life and what are the things that went right and what are things that went wrong? What are your parents doing right and do you like being adopted? And like I just wanted to know every single thing about it.
Speaker 2:And so online communities have just always been such a huge part of just who I am that when this happened with NFTs and I don't want to cry, but like when this happened, like and I saw that communities were being starting to form and that this could be a possibility for like a new type of community to exist, like fuck, I'm like I'm not passing this up, like I don't care if you think this tech is boring, like I want to do this and I really, really fought for it because this is the revolution.
Speaker 1:Like this is like what?
Speaker 2:Like I get to see new, different ways, like a brand new way that people are connecting. Like who gets to have that?
Speaker 1:And what I love about. I'm glad you went all the way back to the beginning, like early days internet, because I was going to ask where you got your conviction from. So, because when I first came into the space, I was following people I didn't know. I wish I like I wish I knew who you were when I first came into the space. I didn't know you until two, three weeks ago, but what I my, how I built, literally, how I built my conviction. I had my aha moment. It was the people sale and I'm like, okay, what is this Like? How did a digital JPEG just sell for, like you know, $70 million when I could save it on my computer? That was like my first moment. But really, where I built my conviction, that was like the diving board.
Speaker 1:It's like okay, now that I feel this very similar to this energy that you're feeling, like I felt it when you're talking about it. I feel it within myself. I felt I feel it every day I get to log into Twitter, um, and I'm like the reason, though, the place where I built that was following people like Andrew St Horitz and Chris Dixon and, you know, gary Vee, and I'm like, okay, these people were around and it's not just those people, but it's people that built the internet and people who experienced the internet invested in the internet in day one. It was like back when it was like web one and I'm like, what the fuck are these people saying about this? And I love that you tied it in because, like you, experienced community in the very first days of community, like online community, I mean, um, and so do you see this as like a? Was this like what web one was supposed to be when it first came out?
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not going to say supposed to be, but I'm sure I mean this is my jam.
Speaker 1:Like right.
Speaker 2:You know relationships that are. You know people are using an alias like mine was Daisy chain, and I didn't know what a Daisy chain was and I found out it was some sexual thing. But it was Daisy chain saw, which was a band at the time.
Speaker 2:You know, back in the early nineties and so, um, early early nineties, beginning of nineties, but anyway, um.
Speaker 2:So this whole concept of getting together using texts like you know, because we were on telegram initially and then moved to discord, it's like all texts relationship, like it just hit, fired every single nerve for me. Like that reminds me of a time when I was a young girl, 30 years ago, like you know, 18, 19 and finding out how, what it. This is what this world is. It's a bigger world than myself. Like I'm, you know, young Indian woman or girl, um, you know, raised by religious parents in Southern California. And now I'm, like online, I'm talking to people from all over and they don't know anything about me and I get to just be who I am and they're interested in me because of my interest and it doesn't matter, like, what I look like or how tall I am, or what my education is, or how much money I have or what it's like. It just kind of removed all of that and allowed me to be like the truest version of myself.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because I don't think the truest versions of ourselves or what we look like Like this is me. Like so this is whatever genetic situation that created this. Now, this is supposed to be me. Like how can this be me? This is made up of 150,000 years of genetic material and this is what survived and that's why I get to survive right now. But what else it's not like inside I get to, I have the privilege of living in a time where people are get to share what's inside of themselves, like we're not just surviving, like our previous generations did, we get to explore all that it is to be a human being and every aspect of ourselves, and so that, to me, was what the internet was then.
Speaker 2:And this felt very much like that, because I thought, oh my God, we're coming off of this I don't know how to even say it, but like filters and a women put filters on their faces, and so much so that I don't even recognize people as human.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So the whole idea of like NFTs and using a PFP as your identity I was like, oh, this is so nice.
Speaker 1:A breath of fresh air. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I don't have to look at filters anymore. Like, if I want to be a dead fella and I'm feeling like a dead fella today, I change my profile picture all the time, but like I'm going to be a dead fella today, and that's me today, that's right. Or I'm a sad drill today, or I'm at atom bomb today, like that's me today and that's who I want to be today, and so it's and it's more a reflection of your support, which is also a reflection of your mission. Again, that all adds up to who you are. So, yes, absolutely. This feels like that. I mean what it was supposed to be. We know what it turned into. It turned into filters, and I was describing this as somebody else. Like even when you have a baby picture, the parents like clean up everything in the back and then take the picture of the baby.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Even if that's just one corner of their house, that's super tidy like. They want everyone to think that the rest of their house is that tidy Like it's all turned into phony baloney.
Speaker 1:It is. And I'll tell you like, when we went to, there was some obviously there's some good parts of web two Like there. There there's some amazing things that happen to web two, but I like the more I participate in this space, the more I like kind of look at them. Like web one truly felt Now I wasn't old enough to like really have awareness and experience it, but it, from what I hear, it felt more decentralized than anything else. And then we took this turn where it was like now we wanted to share every story about who we were and we wanted to put every filter and we wanted to like present this image of something that really didn't exist and it's like somewhere.
Speaker 1:We like took this turn where in the beginning, I had aim. You know, I had a long instant messenger. I had, like I was, you know, that was like my thing and there was no, there was no person attached to it, it was just a screenshot, it was an image, it was, it was, it was pseudonymous. You know, really, what we're experiencing today and so that's why I like I'm starting to like make that connection. I'm like, oh my God, this is like. This is, I feel like, what a lot of the people who, like were early days the internet really wanted, you know, not what it was turned out, what it was supposed to be, but like web three, is what people in web one it feels like they were trying to drive towards. And then somewhere we just took a turn, you know, and we yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and and what we call this, like, what we talk about. This is the real internet.
Speaker 1:This is the internet, now that we have money here.
Speaker 2:This is the internet.
Speaker 1:This is what we can.
Speaker 2:We can be what we want it to be, and does that mean that we won't Just repeat what happened last time? Does that mean, we won't?
Speaker 2:Maybe, I don't know if it's in us to have this utopian idea Like. Is it too idealistic, is it too optimistic? Is it unreasonable? I don't know. Maybe we are not evolved enough to be there and we're just going to repeat and become into these siloed platforms again. I don't know. However, what I've learned from this experience is that I believe that it's possible and because I believe it's possible, I want to try to. If I can move the needle at all in the direction of this possibility, even if it's a 5% chance or a 1% chance. If there's an opportunity for me to affect change in that way, then I will do it at any cost.
Speaker 1:And I think that's what a lot of people don't realize. And going back to what you were saying before, it's like if we knew what the cycle was going to be, there would be no room to have this idea and this imagination of what could be. If you don't believe it's going to happen, then it definitely won't happen. I have enough experience in life to know that, whether you believe it's going to happen or not, you're absolutely right and so that has been, and that's not just in crypto and NFTs, that is just everything in general. Like, whether you believe it or not, you're right, and that has stuck with me forever. And so I see a lot of the hate coming towards Web3. And it's like but if you don't even believe that it's a possibility, how can you not believe in something better, like just because it may not be the exact result or the outcome or exactly the way we intended it or that we planned? That is a very tough life to live, trying to put a cap on innovation. There's someone trying to follow their dream and I want to touch on something you just said. Was that like? I asked those questions to myself all the time. I'm like no well, is this going to zero. Is this like? Is this all speculative? Is the government going to come in? And you know we repeat some of these cycles. But and I questioned myself and I questioned it from time to time I'm like okay, where am I at? Like, like, do I still believe the same answers to these questions that I had when I first started here? And the answer is always yes, but in the reason why, it is because I can't really tie it to anything truly logical.
Speaker 1:I'm not historically a numbers guy. I love numbers when they go up in my favor, but I'm not like a nerd for numbers. But what I base everything on is a feeling. I'm like there hasn't been nothing that makes me feel the way this community feels. There has been nothing that the only thing that comes close or the only thing that is better than this is a very personal journey of mine getting sober. That is my true tribe, like, if I'm if I'm boiling it down to this is bonus round, but this is the closest that it's ever felt to that true tribe.
Speaker 1:And I said I have never met a more vibrant group of people that are like, that actually believe in something better and that have a bunch of cool tools or building a bunch of cool tools to like hopefully make it happen. You know, and so that's what I base like my conviction on. Is that like how does it make me feel? You know, how does this space make me feel? I have, I couldn't imagine this going away tomorrow. Like that would just I don't know where I'd go in life, like that would just destroy me on a personal level.
Speaker 2:I think we're all ruined. All ruined for if this doesn't go well and really what is well means success is different for different people.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:I wanna keep doing this. I wanna be able to live and keep doing this. I think I'm ruined for anything else. Right now, you know I'm 48, I don't know what 58 or 60 it's gonna feel like, but being able to be, have my beliefs and my work and my love all be together. And it doesn't even feel like work, because it's what I want to do with my life, and so it's not even. You know. Someone was asking like oh, is it full time? Or I'm like it's all the time, it's all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's all the time, because who I am and what I'm doing are the same thing. It's who I am, it's what I would be doing, even if I'm working in it. I'm so lucky to be here, but I believe in this, like I believe this is a better way, and so I don't know. It's very difficult to have balance. You know, that's one of the things that we talk about a lot, and I don't know if it's talk about it or not. And on this topic.
Speaker 1:We're talking about it.
Speaker 2:We're talking about it. Balance is very, very, very difficult. Exercise, drinking water, eating you know, really eating. I laugh and I say everybody in crypto is doing intermittent fasting or only one meal a day. We're all doing one meal a day. We're all on this one meal a day diet and good doctors like it, so we're okay, but we're doing it because we don't think to eat, because we're so passionate about this right now and we're so excited and it's just there's so much interest in the space and there's so much to learn. There's so much people are talking about you wanna hear every single discussion. I mean, I don't know. It must have been like when I don't even know what you would describe it the printing pass press, or railroads, or like air flight. Like this is everyone can participate. Like you're like oh, people are flying to China, or people are flying Like not everyone could afford to do that. This everyone can be a part of, and so it's like how can you not then? How can you?
Speaker 2:it's hard to step away because you're like this is a thing and this is like this is life changing and this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity, like even though we had the internet before, but this is like the real internet, and so it's like what you know? What do we? This is a second chance, right? Yes? Yes, it's hard to step away for it and for a lot of people, younger people. I don't know how old you are, kyle, so I can't remember 30,.
Speaker 1:I just turned 30.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, happy birthday Thank you, thank you I said birthday in March as well, so both.
Speaker 1:Pisces, Pisces gang.
Speaker 2:Yes, pisces, yes, let's go.
Speaker 1:I knew, that's why we got along so well 48.
Speaker 2:So I was 18 when you were born.
Speaker 1:You were when you said now I wasn't going to say it, but unless it naturally came from you. On the age I was raised very Southern. I got a Texas mom. I never asked women how old they are. I never make jokes about the age, so I know.
Speaker 2:I tell people casually because I'm 48 and I'm a woman and I'm here, so you need to hear that.
Speaker 1:It's insane, you do. People need to hear that.
Speaker 2:People need to know that there is older women here and we're just insatiable and interesting and useful and this is not a bro club and it's not all 20-somethings.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I yeah, like I feel those repslets and so I don't have. There was one time I was at an event at East Denver. I was at East Denver, yeah, I think, East Denver, and it was a and you know, some of these, some people are just pretty clueless. And he, this guy, came up to me and he said I asked my friend how old you were. These are people I don't know. I asked my friend how old you were, and we think you're 40. And I was like Wow.
Speaker 1:That's a very bold thing to come up and say to women that you don't know. That's bold.
Speaker 2:And I said well, before I started in crypto, I looked like 15 years younger. I'm like well, one thing, you're still pegging me for eight years younger than I am. So, all right, I'm doing something right, and even though that's right and then other Ben. It's true, you know it's taken a toll.
Speaker 1:It does it? Does I mean? When I first came, when I first figured out about this space, I was in a you know, without going into too much detail, but I was in a very tough spot professionally and personally. In it, my entire world was flipped inside out, like what I thought was real. Nothing that I had experienced turned out to be real or turned out to be true. And I was in this weird transition and I historically, since a kid like I, have always been very in tune with my emotions and whether I'm happy or whether I'm sad, it is a strong feeling and I cannot, I can't, hide it, like it it's just, it radiates everywhere. Even if I put a smile on my face, people know. And.
Speaker 1:But I was in the spot where I basically called out a week from work and when I listened to that Clubhouse episode with people I was running on maybe four hours of sleep total the past two days and on like 16 cups of coffee and I like I was so tired and I wanted to go to bed, so bad, but I couldn't. I even had it bootlegged, recorded like to try to get some sleep but I couldn't. I kept coming back to the living room where it was being recorded. I'm like there, there was something special here and you touch on. You touch on the balance, because that has been is I now. I am super privileged right now to be in the position that I am at work because I'm in a salaried position and we're working from home, so it's like I can take a Friday afternoon to record a podcast. My previous job I couldn't do that and so and I'm even in a lot of conflict with like, how I spend my time and how much is dedicated towards what pays the bills and what makes me happy and all of this stuff.
Speaker 1:And so I I learned this from one of Punk's six, five, two, nine threads, and it was. It wasn't one of his mega threads, but it was. It was one of the short tweets that he had where he he said something that was like, if you're in crypto and you're working a full-time job or if you're working any sort of web two job, like, literally hang on like, like, just do whatever the hell you have to do, just to hang on Like, cause it's, it's gonna get there and you are gonna get to that point. But it is a very, very tough journey and I think a lot of people really underestimate that and people don't understand, like why people are only eating one meal a day and kill it, essentially like depriving their body of natural resources.
Speaker 2:Cause we didn't even notice it, You're you don't even notice it. You don't even notice it. It's not like I don't even make a choice to do it. You know, I don't know what and I just have lost really it's. It's maybe really awful, but it's like I've kind of lost interest in a lot of that. And so it's like I just I'm so hyped and I'm so excited and I just I just want this to go and I just think, if you know you can't, this is not sustainable.
Speaker 2:This is not advice I would give, and you know they say a lot like what advice would you give your best friend? Well, I tell my best friend to go to yoga every day. I would tell my best friend to you know, drink the green juice Like I don't know. I don't know what you got stuff but I would. So I'm not doing it right, but I still have energy for it right now because I just I'm getting nourished in different ways.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. It's a spiritual nourishment. It's a. It's a very, it's a very spiritual nourishment and I've never felt anything like that. You know, and I mean I yeah like going on that again, going on the balance thing.
Speaker 1:This is not and I think it's really important to highlight this, because being early is not for everybody Like it's, it's so hard and what's. I think the one of the biggest challenges, at least from what I've noticed, is that, because there is such a large financial opportunity, you're getting people who are not real and I say this with all of them in the world but are really just not cut out to be a first mover in something, because there is so much like what we just talked about that is not talked about when it comes, like this is the advice you'd give your friend who is obviously not a first mover. Like if, if you're not a first mover, this is not like, this is really tough, like what people are doing here, and if you're coming in this from just one angle, if you don't see the pillars of the culture that we're being, that are being built here, you're not going to make it.
Speaker 2:It's funny, though, that you say that, because, like the war stories from before, nfts- also felt that way like even harder.
Speaker 1:And then I feel late compared to you. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's still hard and I still 100% agree with you because the people I meet in this space like you talking to you, it's like we get it, you know, like you met at that event, you're at that event.
Speaker 1:It took three minutes of conversation to get you on this podcast and it cause it's just that, was it, Yep?
Speaker 2:And it's like there's still this understanding, this camaraderie, that it's like this shorthand we have with each other. That's yeah, we're the same.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can trust you. You're in this with me, and that means it's still early. We still have that culture.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I've been trying to find. I'm like, I'm already starting to like put feelers on, like, okay, they're starting to get a lot of attention here about where is web for Like okay, like, where is the edge? Where is that group Cause? Like, I think that has been historically something I've searched for my whole life and that's why this space is so special.
Speaker 1:Is that when, when the iPhone first came out, I was I don't know how old I was either late junior high or early high school but I remember exactly where I was at that moment. I remember exactly where I was standing and I remember I couldn't comprehend why it felt so revolutionary, but I remember the feeling that this was going to change the world and it did right. Like, I remember the pauses that Steve Jobs gave and the way he carried himself and the way he pulled the phone out of his pocket, everything about it. But again, when web two happened, it's almost like my life. Of course, you know I've no problems sharing it, but I'm a recovered drug addict.
Speaker 1:Along with web two, my life took a turn personally and so I took a little detour and for me, selfishly, this is like reconnecting with that like junior high kid that like had all this energy, but he didn't know where to put it, you know, and he didn't know how to like harness everything that he had, like that was within, and so I think that it's I literally just came to that right now as we were talking and I'm like that's why this feels so special. And if you don't feel it, and it's not for you, and if you want safety, this is not for you.
Speaker 2:No, it's fun though, and I mean I think that's why it's so easy for me to talk about my age too, because it's like it's really become meaningless.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Because you and I are both adventurers.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We have this childish idealism and curiosity and this wanting to explore and what's the age on that, like who cares, and so I need people who are 19 and 25 and it still feels like our energies are the same.
Speaker 2:And it's almost like a crypto age, like the joke is kind of like what's your crypto age? Because then it's like, and no one knows, he's in dog years, I don't know. But it's funny because you, you like, connect on this other level and it's. I love the friendships too. I mean, I mean the friendships have been and the connections, the human connections, people in the front. It's just, it's been something so unexpected and I'm just really and again, you know we talked about how this is like bonus life and this is bonus.
Speaker 2:And this feels like being on the playground again, like I'm making new friends, like do you want to play on the swings or do you want to be on the hopscotch? Like it's almost like we're just all playing with each other. But we're grown ups and we already. We have money, we have to depend on people, so it's like it's it's the course now and we get to be kids again.
Speaker 1:That's right. I think that's the most important thing and there's a reason why, like, I'm not a doodles holder, but I knew when doodles came out that it was like I'm like this, is it Like this is going to like? I had the conviction. I just had no ETH and I, when I went to that doodles event or that, not the event, but the doodles, what do they call it? Activation at South by I and I and I, I was, so I like that was like the one thing I convinced you to do. I think, before you left, you're like you should go to doodles.
Speaker 2:Go to the doodles and look, you have to now, but yes, I was.
Speaker 1:I. I had a smile on my face for three and a half hours the entire time I was in there. I didn't realize I spent three and a half hours in there. I'm like any brand and you don't even look, you take away entities from doodles like that is such a warm, cozy, kid friendly brand that touches every generation. And if they can make grown men feel like they're five years old at Disney World again, like that brand is something truly special. I mean I bought the figurine, I bought every piece of merch they had. I bought every sticker. I was, I had zero control. It was like. It's like when Disney World if you've been to Disney World, it dump every ride. You go through this adventure and you go through this thing and then it right when you're feeling nostalgic, it dumps you into a gift shop to like buy all the nostalgia that you just did. I felt like that at doodles and there has been nothing that has even come close to making me feel like that 100 percent.
Speaker 2:I went to doodles because you told me to go to doodles and because you saw my creature's jacket and you're like, oh yeah, you should go to do this. I was like, oh OK, I'll go to doodles. I did not have a doodle, I doodles, I think, shot out of my price range, pretty yeah. And so by the time I even like it was on the horizon for me, I'm just like, oh yeah, I can't afford that. So I didn't even I didn't indulge at all.
Speaker 2:So from afar I was like yeah that's cool, but some things are just not for me. So, ok, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:But then you're like go to doodles. And I said, oh, do you have to be a holder? And you said, no, they're the holder. Events are in the night and then during the day it's open to everybody. And I was like, oh, that's really cool, ok, I'll do it. And so I did it. First thing I did is when I was standing in line, I was asking people around me like, do I need to do anything?
Speaker 2:Like you know, you just walk in and they're like no, you have to join the doodles discord, which turned out to not be true. But they're like join the doodles discord. I said OK, so I joined the doodles discord. I was kind of like browsing in the discord as a non-holder just while I was in line to kind of like mentally prepare for being in inside. And once I went in I was like this is so playful, this is so fun. Everyone is smiling, this is really really cool. Like even the exhibits were cool, I know. So I was just really enjoying myself. I was just really enjoying myself. So I was like, but I wasn't thinking I was going to buy a doodle, I was just like oh, this is really really cool.
Speaker 2:And then I went into the merch shop and that whole experience was so fun. And then I stood. They had a button machine. Did you see the button?
Speaker 1:I got the button yes. I got the button yes.
Speaker 2:So I was in line for the button machine and I was talking to people in line about doodles and it just all doodles kind of day. And then I got to the front of the line and I said, oh, I don't have Apple Pay. And then the guy was like, oh no, I'll buy it for you. So then he bought me a button and it's just that kind of like you know, like just that community feeling, yes. And then after that I was like, oh, I need to buy a doodle, I'm going to buy a doodle. And then I sold like nine and a half ETH worth of other NFTs, Like I just went on a selling spree.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I was like, oh okay, it's like 12 ETH, I got to get it. So I was like I just went on a selling spree of all some of my other projects, like all of my other projects that I could at that point Liquid 8. And then the Ape token dropped.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then at that point I'm like, oh good, Then I'm going to sell five ETH worth and then I'm going to get my doodle, and so I got the doodle. So the Ape token definitely, you know, got me not the whole thing. I made most of the money selling my other NFTs, but the Ape token got me, put me over the finish line for my doodle and this is my doodle and I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:And that's the whole thing. It's like at this point, you know, buying this is my most expensive NFT by 10 and a half ETH, yeah, by 10 and a half ETH. That's kind of a lot for me, but I bought it and I was like I don't even care, like goes up, goes down, like I just want to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Exactly, and I'm like as a non-holder, I was like how can I, how can I buy as many things to showcase that I'm a part of this? That was like my thing, like even that figurine like that is. Oh my God, I can't wait. It's a pre-order for June, but that's a wild event Like that exhibition motivated you to liquidate nine Ethereum worth of product, like worth of assets that you had.
Speaker 2:And I'm passing it out too right.
Speaker 1:Right, just to be a part of this, like that, if that doesn't say something. And for those, I know I'm sure I have a few people that are still like unclear of the ETH to USD, like estimated, like if you put it at $3,000, like $3,000, that is a 30, essentially a $30,000, like, oh shit, I just need to liquidate this so I can get into this community. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's really not for it really isn't it's? Not about the money and it's like you know I was. I met somebody on Friday night, was telling them I said like you rent you know, you rent our place. Well, I was in a share car. Most of my clothes come from Poshmark, which is like because I love thrifting but I can't thrift anyone because I'm in crypto, so who has time to go thrifting? So I shop like late night. I shop on Poshmark for clothes that other people have thrifted, that I can buy so.
Speaker 2:I'm not an extravagant person, by any means, but I'm like, oh yeah, 14 and a half ETH, that's like over 40 grand. I'm like, yeah, I want that. I don't even care if it's ever worth 40 grand again. Like, I just want this. And that's part of the insanity of it, which is there just isn't anything outside that.
Speaker 1:I want that is more mean, more to me than this.
Speaker 1:I'm very similar and I wish I could. I'm similar in a few fronts, but I'm. The one area that I'm not similar is that I have, I can, I the used thrifting, the thrifting. I never understood it and so I never. I never got into it and I'm a snob when it comes to that. I went and bought like a bunch of like streetwear and eSports apparel, like during COVID, and recently upgraded my sound system Like there's only one other community that I'm involved in. That's almost a psychotic, as I am with NFTs is that I'm a tool fan and anything to get their art in my ears in the best quality possible. I'm going to spend absurd amounts of money to do so. Yeah, like I bought an entire Sonos system and a record player and subscribed to title, which is like a high-fi, you know music streaming service, which is $20 a month literally just to listen to their songs in the highest quality possible and on vinyl, like they spark.
Speaker 2:That's your doodle Like that's what makes you feel good.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I and it was, you know, and I'm in a lot of other projects that I absolutely adore and that make me feel good. But that doodles exhibit, definitely, whatever was going on online with doodles, I didn't, it didn't move me, but in that experience, the IRL experience did move me. Yes, that was new for me as well. That was an interesting. I was not expecting that. I was not expecting to go to the doodles exhibit and then want to buy a doodle. I wasn't expecting that. That was a surprise.
Speaker 1:I love that. So now, now that we're back, I want to. I want to talk about we've gone full circle, we've got. We started about your journey in crypto. We went through some of the early stages of collab land. Then we oozed a bunch of passion about why we enjoy this space and now we're coming back to where we left off before. We just, like, took a complete, like, like left turn. So collab land 2021, you'll get some funding. You right now you are. You don't have to DM people to use your product. People are just using it. So where do we go from here?
Speaker 2:I can, I can, I can start. So now the summer of 2021, before world of women. But you know we're already starting to get some traction. Projects are coming up like family these authority, like I, tend to track women's projects, so yeah, yeah. So when world of women came out, that was a huge deal for me. I'm like oh cause fame ladies, I don't know. For some reason I just didn't vibe with the art style.
Speaker 1:I didn't either.
Speaker 2:I don't know I mean, people are love it. Everyone loves different things. I don't, you know, yuck, anybody's young. But I just didn't necessarily feel it for myself and so when world of women came out, I'm like, oh, this I could like take a bite out of. So that felt good, Anyway. So we're starting to get some traction with these NFT communities. Like we signed NBA Top Shot, that was a big deal.
Speaker 2:That was like our first big prod, you know, first big discord server. That's like they already had a discord server. They had 400,000 people in their discord server and they came to us and they said, wow, you need collab land because our discord server is a nightmare. And we like there's just too much trolling that happens and it's hard to like know what's what and who's who and we don't know who holds and who doesn't hold and like we want collab land. We're like, oh, amazing, wonderful and that was something that we noticed at that point is that the troll issue, which is such a big part of like web two and previous versions of crypto or not crypto.
Speaker 2:Previous version versions of online communities. Now we didn't have the troll issue, because you're in a group with people that all own your same asset. You kind of want to get along, and if you're saying something that's kind of bullshitty, then people are going to call you on it and they're going to say just why are you here?
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, right You're using to be here.
Speaker 2:You paid money to be here, like, so you're going to be in here and like shit on everybody.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:What's what's that about? So it's like that troll issue was removed, the fact that you didn't have trolls anymore, or that trolls didn't need to be serviced the way they do.
Speaker 1:I like that Yep, yep. They didn't need to be serviced.
Speaker 2:Right, it was a huge unlock and so NBA tops. So we're like oh, nba top. Like this is happening, you know that's right. They're coming. This is starting to happen, so we probably should raise a series A. That was the thought, like how are we? Going to continue to serve? How are we going to continue to grow? How are we going to continue to keep this free? How are we going to continue to?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, keep growing and growing, like how are we going to do that? We need to do a series A, and so that summer, summer of 2021, was pretty much like out there seeing if we could get money, if we could get a series A. And it started with, you know, one valuation and we're like no, that valuation doesn't really make sense for us, you know people don't really get what we're doing.
Speaker 2:This was a thing. People don't really get what we're doing and they don't see what this is. They don't see the unblock of what this is and how big this community is Crucially like we're trying to convince people of what this is, Even though we knew from the users and we knew from our communities. This is magic.
Speaker 2:Like I see it, I see it, and you feel it, but trying to convince people that it's big was even last summer, was a very, very hard sell. We're like, no, we don't really want to give away so much of the company for such a low valuation, so let's not do that. Then it kept getting higher and throughout the summer it just kept getting. The valuations kept getting higher and higher and higher and then it ended with a very high valuation and at that point, which was four times what it was just, you know, six weeks ago or whatever it was. And then that's when we realized like we want our incentives to be aligned with the people we serve, and incentive willingness starts with finances and shoot.
Speaker 2:Sorry everyone, but we're not going to do a series A anymore and it caused bristled a lot of feathers because it's like what are you doing? Like don't you want our advice, don't you want our influence? And it's like, yes, we'd like your advice and your influence, but we just want to make sure that the community, that's, our incentives, are aligned with the community at all times. Wow, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, I mean it's wild. Keep going, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So it was easy and hard. It was easy because I knew there was no other option and James knew there was no other option, but it was also hard because people took time to listen to us. People took time to give us a new term sheet until we they thought we wanted more and they just bent over backwards to try to please us and accommodate us. And when we said that's not enough for this, you know they they accommodated us and then at the end we still ended up saying that it's not going to happen. And that was hard, it's hard. It's hard because you don't want to waste people time, you don't want to discipline people and, like I said, like we're doing what feels right and we're doing what we, what the world we're trying to create, the world we want to see, and that requires doing this and saying no. So easy and hard, Anyway.
Speaker 2:So then we're like now what do we do? What are we going to do about money? Like now we have no money. Like we could have $15 million in our bank account, you know. And and now we have no money. So what do we do? And it's not that we had no money, we had most of our seed money thanks to each right Cause, each our, our investment was in each and so interesting Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when each went up, then we were not spending any money for like what we spent, we made.
Speaker 2:And so at this point we thought we would need more money, right Like we thought we should do this series and we thought we needed more money, but we weren't spending any money and we'd really we'd learn to really just gather a really smart, trust, high trust team. And boy do I love our team and we spend so much time together that we're like family and we're friends and we're doing this fun thing together and we don't need like we're so efficient. And you know Raymond Fang, he he's our CTO and he's just. You know James is a developer but he says Raymond is 10 times smarter than I am and you know you always want to hire that smarter.
Speaker 2:You want to hire people that are smarter than you are, and it's just we had a really lean team that could do this, and so then we're like that also gave us the courage to say, okay, we're not going to die if we don't. You know, thanks to ETH going up and thanks to our really highly talented, high trust, close team, we were able to not take that money and we were able to, you know, lean into our vision because I know not everybody can pass money up, but we were able to because of that reason, but also so I understand the privilege of that, but also it didn't feel like we could either.
Speaker 2:So it's like so both ways, and I mean we've. You know we're middle class people, like you know. It's like you don't know how you're going to respond to money until money comes.
Speaker 1:That's exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't know what's inside of you, right Like, and I do like nice things, but it didn't. I don't. I don't want nice things at the cost of of this thing. This thing is nothing. So then we're like, what are we going to do? How are we going to get money, how are we going to keep going? And so then we decided to do a NFT sale like public radio style. So both James and I listen to public video.
Speaker 2:That's our main source of information and entertainment, and so we subscribed to public radio. We buy public radio, clothing, we you know the whole thing. So I said why don't we, why don't we just sell an NFT and call it the patron NFT and sell it and all they get for that is this NFT and it's just a fan badge and what they're saying. And you can look at the website. It's still up because we haven't sold out and that's okay. We don't show it and I'm not trying to show it right now.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to know. I didn't know about this until you said, like I had no clue, I was. I'm trying to connect the dots, so keep. No, this is great. This is great.
Speaker 2:So I'm not trying to show, I'm not asking anybody to buy it, I'm just telling the story of how we did this.
Speaker 1:That's yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway. So then we said, ok, let's just put this up. So for one thing we did is we gave everybody because we had reached a million users. This was October 31st. We had reached a million users and let's give everybody who has connected, you know, gone through Collabland and joined for this many, this much time, all these million people, they can all get an NFT, and it's an NFT, that's a, it's like a fidget spinner, and so it's like you can do. You have it.
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:I'll have to get you one.
Speaker 2:But yeah it's either like two bucks, so you can definitely get one, but it's like it's like a little fidget spinner and it's a three. It's a 3D NFT and I was able to work with an artist who I really really like. Like I said, I love being in relationship with artists and so I was able to like choose an artist and like approach the artist and say, hey, do you want your NFT? Like you know, would you like to work with us on this project? We're going to be giving it away to a million people. I don't know how many people are going to collect it, but you know this is an opportunity for you and for us, and we love you. We want to give our, we want to give our members something cool. Like I don't want to just give them an NFT, Like I want to give them something cool. And she was making these toys, like these 3D toys, and so I was like that's a cool thing. I want to say thank you to everyone who's connected so far and is a part of our larger community.
Speaker 2:I want to give them this membership NFT, and so it is a signal or symbol of that. They were an early believer in collab land by participating in our communities, so gave it away for free. On Polygon we paid the gas. Everything as many people want to connect or collect them could. And then next to it I had a patron NFT that said and it's 6.9 eighth.
Speaker 2:And I said if you like collab land, if you want to support collab land, if you want collab land to stay free, if you want the individual and the community to always, always be at the top of our priorities, that we serve you first, then buy this NFT Like that's it. It's just truly just a fan badge, and we were able to raise $3 million.
Speaker 1:That's insane. And how many of those did you sell?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know right now they're still, like, constantly being sold, but it's over.
Speaker 1:That's so fucking cool.
Speaker 2:Like that.
Speaker 1:And so it, because that was like my, my next. And so, when it comes to those NFTs, is that what's still funding you all today?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wild.
Speaker 2:And so now we are moving, we are going to be decentralizing. I don't know if we want to get too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah sure We'll be decentralizing, and so we're going to become a Dow, and so we just need to get to that point, like this $3 million has to like get us to that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where it's going to be. You know, participation is going to equal ownership of collab and the API is going to be open and so that way, anybody that wants to connect with. So it's like with communities. There's lots of different ways to think about communities and I'm just going with my thesis here. And my thesis here, based on just what I've seen, is that the best approach is for communities to grow outward.
Speaker 2:So you know, you start on Discord and then people already start putting their town hall meetings on Notion, and then they may have a single issue discussion on Reddit, and they may have a whatever, whatever, and so it's like the community. There's no such thing as just one place for a community Discord may remain the town hall right. You need a business park and you need a restaurant and you need a whatever clinic and you need like right.
Speaker 1:Think about all the community needs.
Speaker 2:They're going to want to spread outward and there may be parts of your community in the in the future that only are interested in one part of it, like just want to note and that's it, or maybe you're having you know, you have your own media arm.
Speaker 2:And so it's like there's going to be movies and TV shows and whatever. Like maybe the that's going to be, can you have collab land there? And so that way, collab land is almost like a connective tissue on top, rather than it being like oh, it's just one place for one community. Like that was not a plan, like it's always been about growing, and so, even though with collab land it's like it's kind of an innovative, it's not innovative, but it's like you know, we're working together with the communities to learn how to best serve them. And so it's not like we came up with this plan from the beginning and we're just like, oh, this is what we're going to do and we're going to be the connective tissue and it's going to be this, that and the other thing. It's more like we're growing with these communities, that we're lucky enough to have started, at least planted the seeds, and so now we're watching them grow and we're saying, okay, how can we best serve you and how we do to help you grow?
Speaker 2:And so that's why you know, like part of and no one ever said it outright, but you know monetizing user data we are asked to, we're asked for user data every single week, multiple times, and their projects that won't work with us, because they want you know the wallet addresses and we are.
Speaker 2:We don't share any data with any, any third party, and so there's a lot of like oh, if you won't give us that which we should get, because we want to monetize those people, or we want their email address, or we want their whatever, and we want their discord. We want their wallet address. Like you know, they want all this stuff and that's for their own purposes, which is fine. However, the world we're trying to create is that you, kyle, get to decide if you want to share that information with somebody. I'm not. I don't want to make money off of that. I don't want that to be the world that we create here. I want right.
Speaker 2:If we're in a position to, like I said, you know, move the needle at all. I want to move the needle toward your life online mean something. Your, I'm talking to you. That should mean something. I should get compensated for what I'm doing because my life is here. This is not my entertainment. I live here and so I need to be compensated for my participation. And I'm like I'm not saying you need to pay me, but you know what I'm saying Like that.
Speaker 1:I know I completely get it yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's like date. Your data is yours, it belongs to you. That's your asset. That's your. That's you. That's you online. It is your identity online.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing. There's there's times where I, like I've bought some of my most favorite products from Facebook ads. Now, what I have like to give, like but. But there's a there's and that was in a different period of my life, but I'm because we're having this conversation around, like you know, decentralized data, and like you know what we're okay with. But I love the fact that, like y'all are not going to just willingly give it up. That's going to be an option for people, because there's some people that may want to only be sold.
Speaker 2:They should. They should you can decide if you want to make money off of it. You should decide if you want to participate in that.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:You're going to do it and you can't. I don't like the idea of using a service and then knowing that that service is now owns your identity and can sell it willy nilly against us and it's the back door.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100%, and I think that it's like it was like you know, it's like you know, it's like it. What's really interesting and I just came to this epiphany when you were going through this is that, like I feel like there's very similar is like communicating web three to onboarding new people. There's a there's also a weird conversation, or like there's a weird thing that gets lost in translation, where it's like giving users their data. There's this assumption, I feel like by a lot of people that demand the data because we've gotten so spoiled with it, is that they're in number one, they're entitled to it, but number but number two, that people don't want to give it out. Like I feel like giving people a choice in a lot of people's minds and correct me if I'm wrong equals like oh, no one's going to give it. Then, if you give them the choice, Like that, that's.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's true at all.
Speaker 1:That's asinine.
Speaker 2:Because people want to be sold things, to work themselves and their identities Like people's you know on Twitter, like influencers. They take money for ads, like exactly.
Speaker 1:People want to be sold things and like, as someone who like, loves things, I want to be sold something that is niche to my interests. Like I think that's in web two it just got so far on the on the up. Like it's not that like ads are bad. It's not that personalized ads are bad. They're actually really good because it's tailoring products and services that I actually want. Like that's actually valuable, but it's at the but I'm not knowing what I'm giving up. Like that's. That's the problem. It's my thing, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes. However, but when I think of my own experience on Facebook like I was on it for 13 years and I shared pictures and videos and my children's songs and every single thing and how much money was made because of what I'm sharing Like now they own it and now they just can pass it around any way they want, that's right.
Speaker 2:Passing around me. They're making money off of me, and if I want to be made money off, at least I should get some number one choice in the matter, that's exactly what I'm saying, though Money in it too, like there should be, some split with me, because it is me that you're making money off of. It's me online, what I'm sharing. That's me and that's. There is no difference. There's no difference between me being there and sharing everything on Facebook and me talking to you at a party. There is no difference.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Like the fact that they're acting in this idea, that they're doing you this favor and then you pay with your data. It's like they say you're the product. Right, if you're not paying, then you're the product. So how can we change that? How can we make that different? How can we flip the assumption that just because you're the product that you deserve to be sold in that way.
Speaker 2:And so then it's like for us we're in a position, because we have so many members, to say we're giving it all back to the individual. Like you get all of your own data and if you want to share it with somebody, you can. If you want to opt into some advertising, you can. That is your choice. You can do that. Right. When admins say we want all the wallet addresses for everybody that is logged in through Collabland, what I say is well, put up a Google form in one of your token granted access channels.
Speaker 2:Yep, and they're like well, we don't want to do that because people won't do that.
Speaker 1:Then there's your answer yeah.
Speaker 1:There's your answer no, but I, like you gave me an opportunity to like learn in public. I mean, I guess, kind of public this will be published later but you know, like learning in public because I, you know there are a lot of products that I was like kind of okay with, just like being the product. I'm like they gave me something I wanted and that was the value exchange. But I think, where my mindset's a little bit more in web three, I get it. But you know, like, when it comes to JPEGs, I get it. When it comes to certain things like this, I get it. When it comes to like I'm thinking, I guess, more along the lines of like physical products and like how people adopt these in the future.
Speaker 1:You know, because not everything's going to, not everything truly needs to be web three Like there's some products that it's just like it doesn't, or at least maybe at this period in time, it's just not mature enough. It doesn't make sense. It would feel like a cash grab. But you gave me an opportunity to learn in public where it's like they am like, well, if I am the product and they're using this product to make money, why shouldn't I at least have some sort of kickback at the very least, as say you know, because, like you should you should and it's, you know, it's interesting that they've made enough money.
Speaker 2:Let's stop thinking that we're that, it's even or it's equal. Like that they're giving us a service. Let's stop pretending that they're not getting tremendous value from it and that we're also not contributing to their success. And that's the thing about Collablan too All these people who use Collablan. They are participants in our success. They are participants in our company. Right, we are that way for every product. I mean any of these social media platforms.
Speaker 1:That's yeah. No, I love that Like that. I love when I don't have an answer to a response, and so you gave me that opportunity so I enjoyed that. Well, okay, cause, like, I think it's something that's discreet, like it's something that web three is really good at is like, because in web two it was discouraged to learn in public. Like, learning in public and learning in real time is one of the best things that this place has to offer. You know, new ideas, introducing new ways of thinking, and that's and that's how it happens Making mistakes, making things right, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I see I see more of that in web three. So I just I wanted to like, I guess, just acknowledge that, especially for people, because what's wild about my audience is that I have people who are crypto native, I have people who are on the fence, I have people who are in esports, and I'm sure I have some people who are just listening just because they like what I like, they just like want to support whatever I'm doing, but they may not have any clue about what web three even is. So I like to like zoom out a little bit to that last crowd, to where to make this more of a safer on ramp. Where is it going to happen all the time? No, but it's happened more in web three, where I watch people make mistakes in public or learn new things in public or have disagreements in public and have their train of thought challenged and not have this emotional, like pissing war, you know, of like who's right and who's wrong.
Speaker 1:That, to me, is one of my most favorite parts about this is that there are so many people that like are incredibly intelligent and have a lot of good ideas, but they're also not afraid to admit, you know, when something may be a limiting belief, or maybe something in an area that they, like, maybe not have been comfortable sharing before. So I don't know. I love that I had the opportunity to do that, so thank you for that. And so, going back to you know, going back to Colette, like, when it comes to the future of this, you know, like you mentioned the Dow and you meant is that that seems like the obvious next step when it comes to this Dow, at least with your vision, you know, I'm sure, like because we have these ideas and then, typically, maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't happen until another five years. What is it that most excites you about the DAO? What is it that you personally, as a DAO contributor, want to accomplish the most?
Speaker 2:What excites me the most about it is just seeing the innovation that's going to come out of the ways people use collab land, because it's a community tool. If someone says, oh, we want to integrate with what new platform, new VR AR platform, who knows what's going to happen in the future? Then the DAO can approve it and then pay for it and set a bounty and it can happen. I don't want to be, and we don't want to be, the gatekeepers for what this can be. What excites me the most is just seeing what happens, and seeing what happens, because we're just as excited as everybody else. This is an opportunity. Like crypto gives us all a chance to work together and have some incentive. Alignment with finances that is the sticky part that is necessary.
Speaker 1:That's why people come.
Speaker 2:We say a lot people come for the casino and stay for the revolution Without the casino. They're not getting into it.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Climate change. We all know we need to work on it. There's probably ways to already work on it, but there is an incentive alignment to work on it and so nobody works on it.
Speaker 2:It's like we have that money unlocked, that people, whatever come for that, come for the candy. That's right. We get all these bright minds together and really nothing is stronger without everybody working together. There can be no stronger experiment For us.
Speaker 2:It's like when people say, oh, who are your competitors, or do you feel competitive with them, or them or them? We don't feel competitive with anybody. Number one why would we be competitive when we've been begging for what to come here? Now that you're here, we're supposed to be competitive about it. No, please, we need more and more people coming here. We need more and more people building here, because we want everybody to come here. There's room for everybody, Like Wagni and Wagni is real. It's like we are all going to make it. If we all work together and don't have this zero sum thinking and we have a positive sum thinking, we're all going to make it. We're here to bring in, usher in the new people that are coming in, so everybody doesn't have to use Collablin. There's room for everybody to use everything, Right. So I'm just really excited about what it can be, what will happen, what it can be really and, like I said earlier, about participation and ownership. It's like we're able, not taking a series A and doing this community valuation yes.
Speaker 2:Let's pull out that Saying we don't care if you think we're worth this much money, we want to know what our community thinks we're worth. And that you build first and you prove yourself and you make yourself valuable and then you let them decide what you're worth.
Speaker 1:That's right, the market decides. The market decides what you're worth 100% Right.
Speaker 2:And if we can do that. People just saw that and the few people that saw that. That gives them another way to think about their own fundraising.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And that it's okay to walk away from a high valuation, because that's bullshit anyway. What high valuation? Let's stop putting priority on that and let's start putting priority on serving this new world we're trying to build.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I fucking love that, and I think this is probably a good place to start wrapping things up Like this, like I want to end on such a strong note Anjali, anjali.
Speaker 2:Anjali.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to get it the third time. I'm going to get it right. Absolutely. It has been an absolute treat. This is like I didn't know what we were going to talk about, but this is the same feeling that I had anticipated was going to happen, just based off the limited interaction that we had in Austin a few weeks ago. So this has been so much fun it has been. I don't feel like I think this is the beginning of something. I don't feel like this is the end, but I cannot wait to see what you guys continue to do. Like you guys are such a strong team, you are such a pillar Like there is. It may not be the sexiest tool, but you are the enablers of what's being like, what is bringing people in and keeping people here. Like y'all are such an important part of this ecosystem and I hope you realize that and I love what y'all do. So again, yes, Thank you for wanting to listen.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you including me.
Speaker 1:Yes, I couldn't think of anyone more fitting for this, because this has been an absolute blast. So if people want to learn more about you, where can they find you? Where can they support the product? How do people use Collablin? If they want to get in contact with you, how do they do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. If you're in any NFT communities right now, you probably have used Collablin. We don't really have much marketing. If you know who we are, then you know. If you don't know what we are, then you probably don't need us. So that's kind of been where it's where we've been at. But Collablin on Twitter is collab underscore, lab underscore. We just started with that ID but someone else owned Collablin and then we bought the other Collablin but now we're kind of like nostalgic about this, anyway. So I'm always like on the other Collablin, no spaces or anything. I have a note that says go to the other Collablin, that's right.
Speaker 2:Anyway, and then on Twitter, I'm Dama De Roca, which is D-A-M-A-D-E-R-O-C-A. That's Lady from Boulder, I live in Boulder, I love that, and that's it. That's where to find us.
Speaker 1:Love it. I'll put those links in the show notes. If people want to watch any previous content or watch anything, see what y'all do and, of course, if they want to get in contact with you, because I imagine there's going to be a few people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Angeliettecollabland.
Speaker 1:Yes, hang out for just a moment. Once this records, once this ends, but this has been an absolute treat. Thank you so much again.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Shiller Vaulted Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. As we close out today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite audio platform and leave a five star review to ensure you never miss an episode and to help others discover the Vaulted Podcast as well. To stay updated on upcoming episodes, as well as our weekly Twitter space schedule, be sure to follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Shiller XYZ. Once again, thank you for tuning in and remember if you're looking for it art is everywhere and it's up to us to appreciate and explore the emotions it brings to our lives. Until next time, this is Boone signing off.