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VAULT3D: j1mmy.eth - Navigating the NFT Landscape: From CryptoKitties to Avastars, Shaping Digital Identities and the Future of Online Interaction
Join us on a riveting journey through the multifaceted world of NFTs as we chat with J1mmy.eth, the visionary behind Avastars and an influential figure in both Flamingo DAO and XCOPY DoomDAO. We're peeling back the layers of digital identity and examining how blockchain is revolutionizing our interactions online. Encounter Jimmy's transformation from a CryptoKitties aficionado to a NFT heavyweight and dive into the creation story of Avastars and Nameless, the minting platform that launched successful projects such as GaryVee's Veefriends.
As we traverse the realms of gaming and art, you'll discover the seismic shift that NFTs have ushered into these spaces, debunking the doubts of naysayers who cling to the outdated 'right-click and save' argument. The historic $69 million Beeple NFT sale was more than a headline—it was a signal flare, announcing the arrival of NFTs as a cultural mainstay. And as we connect the dots between in-game purchases and the boundless potential of NFTs in gaming, prepare to envision a future where your digital assets journey with you across virtual landscapes, enriching your gaming experiences.
Wrapping up, we ponder the future of identity through the lens of NFTs. Imagine a world where social biases are dismantled by anonymous or non-representative profile pictures, cultivating a merit-based digital society. As we speculate on the forthcoming waves in online personas and reputation-based systems, we invite you to join this fascinating conversation. It's a dialogue that not only examines the current state of NFTs but also paints a picture for the dawn of our digital identities.
j1mmy.eth links
X (Twitter): https://x.com/j1mmyeth
Avastars
X (Twitter): https://x.com/AvaStarsNFT
Collection: https://opensea.io/collection/avastar
Flamingo DAO
X(Twitter): https://twitter.com/FLAMINGODAO
The Doomed DAO
Website: https://thedoomed.xyz/
SHILLR:
Website: https://www.shillr.xyz
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/shillrxyz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shillrxyz
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@shillrxyz
GM. This is Boone and you're listening to Vaulted, a Web3 podcast series from the Schuller Archives. This episode was originally recorded on September 17, 2021 and features Jimmy Eath, creator of the Avastars project and member of Flamingo Dow, and the newly formed Xcopy Doom Dow. In this episode, we dive deep into digital identity, on-chain reputation, the rise of student enmity and much more. As always, this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for financial advice. Boone and Guest man NFTs discussed. Now let's grab some coffee and dive in this conversation with Jimmy. Good morning, jimmy. How are you Great? How are you doing man? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. It's been a good week so far. How about yourself?
Speaker 2:Good, I just got back from New York City. I managed to somehow sneak into Jay-Z's 4040 club for his 18th anniversary of that club and met a bunch of really cool folks and a couple celebrities. And just back in Texas now.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty strong flex for an intro man. I like it. It's pretty incredible. It's one of the things I've been talking a lot about. This scene, especially in the past couple of weeks, is that historically, without this technology that we're both obviously obsessed about, is that the barrier or the, I guess, the level of access that we get to have for being a part of such a small community? I think any barriers that were there have completely disappeared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of crazy the access that we're all collectively getting to both celebrity and entertainment and brands and stuff right now. And then also people tend to think that I'm a big deal for some reason and that they're like, oh my god, you talked to me and you took the time and really I'm just like everybody else in the space that just loves what we're doing and if it's either cool, it's the future. Let's talk about it and figure out how to make it all work together.
Speaker 1:And I think that's part of the attitude that you carry. Specifically, what you just said is people think I'm a big deal, but really we're just all in this together to talk about it. We love this new technology. That's what I think is very different. I think what excites me about this culture is because anything new and shiny and exciting, people tend to again put those barriers in place and wall themselves off. But this community and this culture has been entirely the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think part of it is, too, that this stuff was invented in 2017, a little bit before perhaps, but 2017. And then everybody left the crypto space from our perception, the NFT perceptions, the NFT community, and we had 2018 and 19 by ourselves, and we still felt like what we were doing was very groundbreaking and important. And now that there's people now that think the same thing and are coming back, I think we're also excited that what we bet on is actually coming true, that we're just willing to take the time to spread the word, because we were evangelizing all through those times when no one wanted to touch crypto. So now it's fun, because every time we tell somebody about it, we can see them get excited.
Speaker 2:I know it's a poorly timed word, but it is what it is. I call this the spreading the NFT virus. It's very much a virus, and I can tell when people catch it because they can't think about anything else. All of a sudden, you can see the same behavior from one person to another, so I don't know what else to call it other than a virus. But my job, and all of our jobs, is really to spread this virus.
Speaker 1:There's some good ones, man, yeah. And just to give a quick two minute intro or background to who you are and what you're doing, why you were just who you are and what you're doing now Sure.
Speaker 2:So I'm Jimmy, jimmye, jimmy with a one. I have been collecting NFTs since 2017. And I previously started another business in the Google enterprise space in 2007 and exited that in 2013. And NFTs is like what I was looking for in between what I left there and what I found. And I started in the Crypto Kiddy's community as a collector and then I became a moderator in their Discord and then eventually got convictions to build my own project and I built Avestars, which is a personal profile picture collectible stored entirely on the blockchain. The images and the metadata. That's important. That won't go into why right now, but they are. They're there forever. If you buy an Avestar, it's always there. And then now we're building a minting platform called Nameless. Gary Vaynerchuk is one of the first projects, his VFriends project one of the first projects to do that, and we've worked with several other high profile customers since then and our building heads down building right now so that we can work with a lot more here in the near future.
Speaker 1:That's incredible man. That's a great answer. I think you practiced that one before.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit. Maybe a little bit, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And just to give you a little bit of my background, I couldn't give two shits about the blockchain in 2014, 2015, and 2016, and even really all the way up until this past February, and it wasn't hostile or it wasn't personal, but it was just that I couldn't find a real life use case or I couldn't see how this. No one could really explain to me how it was actually beneficial besides like oh cool, we just value this cool technology, like awesome. But now we're built.
Speaker 1:Now, really, what got me into the scene was when people sold that 69 million piece. That caught my attention. I raised my eyebrows a little bit and that's what I'll tell you. That's what caught my attention. But what kept me there was the clubhouse room afterwards where they had MetaCovin and Tubidor in that clubhouse room and they were explaining the reason why they bought it. They had one of the alien punks I can't remember his name there, but the alien punk with the top hat and the pipe. He was there and just hearing the sheer like emotion and energy that was being just like shared in an office. It felt silly to know. Was it silly to?
Speaker 2:know, I believe so. Yeah, did he sell that punk or something? Yeah, he went into like the whole backstory of it, like the.
Speaker 1:You know the. I mean why it was so important to him, how it was a part of his life, and I just said, this is some. This is incredibly nerdy. But like this is this is so cool man Like I, I feel like this is exactly what I've been missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's like the beginning of that virus that I was talking about too. You understood, like, just how powerful this all was. There's a great community there. I mean, the fact that you know you can digital assets can now be owned is the hard concept. I mean, I think we finally got past that right click and save meme that everybody was talking about.
Speaker 2:You know, I've kind of looked at the fool. No matter who you are in the world, if you say that, um, and it's understood that ownership means you can own it, yeah, Someone else can make a copy of it, but those people can't sell it on the blockchain and you know, like the person who can, just like you know. But people sold that 60 million dollars, 69 million dollar, NFC, right, and Metacovin paid for it, Metapurse paid for it, right, they were willing to put down that money to do it and really that moment was kind of like a big spark for the middle stream space, Um, and so really uh, really important uh in the history of NFTs. I think you know even more so as people look back in a few years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I think that's what. Uh, what what I started learning was when, when I started diving into this, is that I, you know, not only was I a part of that clubhouse room, I actually like recorded that on my iPad, like on top of it, like just because, like I wanted to record that moment in history, because I and I shared that to my friend, I'm like you've got to check this out. I'm like you have to, like you have to listen to the energy that's in the. You know the atmosphere and it's just audio chat room. We can't even see each other, but we all just have this collective spirit. And I'll be honest, like even I was sold, but I did about three to four months of research before I even bought my first NFT because, like I was, I was sold, but I'm still like that's still a lot of money to throw into this. You know, on a, on a JPEG.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, really, the only reason I bought a cryptic it initially is because I was mining Ethereum and kind of like you like there wasn't anything to do with Ethereum and I had a comeback. Collectibles I love collectibles and I love like Video games and things like that. So to me, like I've played Dota 2 for, like you know, the last eight or nine- years and, yeah, spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on skins in that game.
Speaker 2:Just that are just cosmetics and some of them I can I sell and stuff sometimes on the Steam Marketplace. But you know, I've always had that desire to be able to actually sell it for real money. That doesn't involve like extra steps and things like that. And NFTs kind of to me like lit that fire and I had a theory on from mining theory of them. So I had I didn't have to like initially put cash into the game, right like that. I didn't end up buying you know a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of Ethereum for I finally figured out how to just like make money in the space natively, but but Initially I was just spending the mining proceeds that I got.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. I mean that's and that's cool and I love that you brought gaming up, because that's where my roots are embedded, that's where that's. That's always been a place where you know I could build a community around something I really loved, as though it was my escape as a kid. You know I'm a huge halo First-person shooter. I like here's the war, I like call duty. I like you know those are what. Those are the games that I grew up with and you know I think the funniest use case.
Speaker 1:Sorry, gotcha no no, but I think that's the fascinating part, because gaming, I think, is one of the biggest use cases in. In NFTs are like why they're so valuable. Because you look at the CS history of like selling skins for thousands and thousands of dollars. That provided that they didn't do anything but it was purely cosmetic skins are useful in other games.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's meta versus and that's what NFTs unlock.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and I've been trying to make that point because I still have like a couple toes in the gaming community and the online twitch streaming community and and what's fascinating is that they're still heavily on the right-click save, as me like there's still so heavy in that and I just the irony is, Tell me, like, use their like CS gun inside of a fortnight game and that's the pizza they're making.
Speaker 2:And to do that by right-clicking and saving a copy, a picture, that how are you gonna do that? If you can't prove you own the gun there, the fortnight's not gonna accept the picture of the gun. They're gonna accept accept the proof of ownership layer, which is a non fungible token, right, right.
Speaker 1:And I like how we're kind of like defining all these simple examples through things that we enjoyed, because I think with me, the, the, the kickers that Valorant is, you know, probably has some of the coolest skins on the market today, like there's, like you can have a dragon as your sniper rifle. It's animated, it has these, you know, blow smoke out, and it's like.
Speaker 2:Imagine having Valorant skins in other games or imagine having like that in the fascination yeah, this is exactly where we're going with things so like in like NFTs is the bridge to get us there, right? So it mean gamers should I'm a gamer like this is the dream come true? And hopefully, like other gamers who are like participating in these online economies, in the games, like understand that the next step is this ownership that goes outside of the platform that the game is on. And then, like developers, understanding that means that, like you know, that Valorant weapon could be seen in fortnight. And how do you get that Valorant weapon? Well, you go and play this Valorant game or you buy it off of the a A marketplace, and Valorant themselves can get a royalty off of that sale. Like it's a open, open ecosystem that the metaverse will end up, the the metaverse will thrive as an open ecosystem, yeah, and developers gonna have no choice but to adopt open methods, otherwise they're just gonna be kind of forgotten, right, waldo is they're gonna die and I.
Speaker 1:I think that's an incredible. I love that statement because it's, it's it's breaking down a lot of the barriers that we like, kind of going back to the initial part of the conversation, you know, but one a, since we are a little bit crunched for time. You know, like I love touching on the gaming thing. It's, it's, it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. But you know, this is just one use case of it. Like, I like, obviously, this is what I enjoy.
Speaker 1:But to me, what I didn't know about myself was that number one in the traditional art world, I could get two shits about the Mona Lisa. I don't care about. Like, not to say that I don't recognize the talent like, but I don't see the value in that. Like DaVinci, like, I respect it, but I wouldn't be willing to pay millions of dollars for it. You know, now, like a Fidenza, that is something that is a pretty dope thing that if I had the money to pay a million dollars for, I would do it, you know. But it unlocked this new idea of like, what art actually means and what this generation defines art. You know, like what, how this generation actually defines art, because art is incredibly subjective and it's what people. Art is what people say. Art is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I got it all like two years ago for basically calling someone's art like trash and Like basically saying this is bad art. You know, I learned very quickly that you know, baby, like playing in their poo is then wiping it on the wall as an artist, like, if we can just go to the like lowest primitive that you can like anybody Just say there are no artists, you're not allowed to do with that. Um, but yeah, no, it's really interesting with the new like, with the fact that, like NFTs allowed digital artists and like motion graphic artists and things like that now, who just had to be very career driven Of this point in order to express talent, to be able to come into a space where people can recognize that this is art I appreciate and want to own. Right, like before they may have like been able to say, oh, this is cool, like I can like save a copy of this and maybe set as my saver. But there's a very different primitive and Feeling about owning a piece of art that somebody drew that you know that you own.
Speaker 2:Um, and this is like. This is like basically a digital renaissance For art taking place right now, largely because of NFTs and the technology that has allowed people to create digital art being Built up on these last. You know this last like 100 years, nearly now.
Speaker 1:I guess, okay, man, and and and traditionally art collectors is a is a scene where you just have to go on like but I told, but but it, but I said so. Or like just trust me, dude, you know. Or like just you know, like yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I'm buying traditional art, the world, contemporary art, now real life art, and you know, art dealer tells me this is how much I just sold this to this person for and I believe it right.
Speaker 1:But, like you're right, I think it's not like I can look on the blockchain and confirm some of these things right and I and the reason I why I touch on that is because I think it we've you know, web 2.0 Introduced this culture like web to know, like obviously meaning social media, you know, in e-commerce and digital platforms and and interacting with each other online. I think it introduced this really like we've gotten spoiled with like being able to literally just take, you know, artwork and put it on our computer, and we've also been really spoiled in the sense that, like we are, we are only showing our best selves on web 2.0, like we're only showing the, the dubbies, we're only showing the victories and and there's room up three week at our wallet, or right now, our wallet is our identity, right, and there's a whole social layer to that.
Speaker 2:Um, and people do see everything that's done on these wallets. You know, granted, a person could have, like you know, their own other wallets they don't disclose and things like that. That's not actually how I operate. Like you know, my stuff's pretty damn public.
Speaker 1:It's in your username.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jimmy, I eat one when, you know, at my vault, which is also still tied to that domain. It's a vault that Jimmy dot e. So you know, you know it's my product, my stuff is known and it. It's really interesting because you know, all that stuff is there and and really like, I think None of the tools have really been developed yet really do those deep and policies of all this. So it's gonna get really interesting when people go back and and find things in people's wallets and, you know, figure out how it all went down and the connections between people, like that social graph itself is gonna be extremely interesting. So I'm excited about it all.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, I, I'm actually a big advocate for, you know, data privacy and user privacy. I think zero knowledge proofs we won't get into that. That's a way to protect user data and privacy in a way that hasn't been possible up to this point. Also, it can be applied to NFTs. But I also believe that there's something really powerful about these online public profiles and the way that the trans. It's very Transactional and transparent in nature. It allows us to do things without central authorities like banks and things like that. You could get a loan based on your wallet and things like that, without having to go through traditional approval methods. There's a lot of stuff you can do here and you and, like you said, it's not just gaming, it's not just art. These are like proof of ownership. I could be talking about the deep home, with me talking about keys to your car. It can be your identity itself. There's a lot of very important use cases to be played out for NFTs and I mean and, and even take it a step further.
Speaker 1:One other issue we have in touch on is music. Like you know, every concert ticket can be an NFT, like you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely concert ticket and people could drop their albums in NFT. I bought a music NFT this morning. My friend texted me about it last night. He said it's one of, you know, one of the first. He probably thinks it's the first, but it's one of the first musical NFT drops. And so I went ahead and bought one for point zero, eight, four years off of like yeah, I mean my first.
Speaker 1:I see my first NFT purchase was the Kings of Leon album. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I want. So, yeah, you got Kings of Leon. I was purchasing them from much more obscure people on Super Rare a few years ago as well, like just examples, the first examples of a music NFT. So it's all there. That's a huge use case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, and it gets rid of these secondary scalper markets Like on, you know it it it does create a secondary market, but it can make it more reasonable and it's not in the hands of a central authority, it's in the hands of the community.
Speaker 2:You know who's getting the money, so then you can start to figure some things out. Like you know, a lot of people probably don't like Recognize, like fully, that some of these big ticket companies are like providing tranches of tickets to like resellers and those resellers we're going using marketplaces created by the people who sold the tickets to begin with created and just get an additional feed. You know, some of those things are a little bit, you know, bullshitty, yeah yeah. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's a. I think it's a massive one because I'll tell you it's one of the it's. One of the things I hate the most is that, like you know, I'm a huge tool fan and you know like it take it, sell out in like seconds and they crash websites and they in it's and it. But I will be I'm not super fan that will pay a scalper to do it. Unfortunately, that's like one of the few times I am, but we get to. We get to like, potentially remove all that and if you buy it From a person where you know where the money's going, over a company where you don't know where it's going, you you know, yeah, it doesn't solve all the problems, but, like we said, transparent.
Speaker 2:And then there can be other ways, like there's. There's the idea that, like, you could set restrictions and say, like you know, you have to have an account for X amount of time. There's, there's lock chain things you can do to like basically set and gate things. You maybe you have to have a previous tool to get in your wallet, right, you know? Or you can't have ever had a tool to get in your wallet. If you want it all anyways, there's like a bunch of like cool stuff you could come up with and, plus, you get to layer.
Speaker 2:At least we have a new system that we can work with instead of just being like behind like a Curtain and not be able to tell, like like. That's why it's important to talk and collaborate with people and express ideas, so that we can design new ways to do things that are better and make more sense. Because, I guarantee you, these ideas are all within Our heads already. We've already thought of them through the years and our frustrations, and playing these video games and doing these experiences. It's the man. I wish it was like this, or imagine if it was like that. Yeah, we all come together with these ideas and talk about them, then we're gonna be able to build like a really great future in the better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that, and it's again. It goes back to the culture of like we and I think it goes back to the root of everything that's being built on, which is the blockchain, is that it's a trustless system. Therefore, we have no incentive to not be trustworthy to each other.
Speaker 2:You know people, people are, and that's gonna happen, but there's I've sent more money to people that I've never met in my real life, like you know, on a trust in a trustless system. But based on that, and like you know, reputation matters as well hey, and you don't want to blow your reputation in a small and nascent growing space. It's gonna become less relevant now. People are now leveraging people's reputations and saying, hey, I'm this guy, send me money please and I'll send it back to you. Like, oh, you're that guy, I'll send you that money and it turns out not to be that guy, so Myself nor anybody of any prominence will ever ask you for any Eek or for asking for any phrases or asking for any passwords or anything. We don't want it. If somebody asked you for that, just tell them to fuck off. Right, right, exactly, yes.
Speaker 1:And I it's funny you bring that up because, like it wasn't in that specific scenario, but just because this is brand new and my lack of paying attention I was doing eight things at once. I actually had a problem with my hardware wallet and I was looking it was with the collab lamb bot or with one of the Bots for discord to help me get a new roll and it wasn't working right. So I'd contacted supportive or telegram and Telegram and mention in there in their telegram is it will never reach, it will never DM you. First I said okay, so I I hit the question, but then someone DMs me and so I I Do. The trust was there that this was support. They said, oh, it's just you need to connect your wallets together through this site. Well, me, having complete blind trust and not thinking twice, I entered in my in my hot wallet. My seed phrase All my teeth was gone, yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I burn, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's been happening more and more recently because, like it's more popular now and it's it really, really sucks. These are very expensive lessons for people to learn.
Speaker 1:They are. However, there's a. There's a lot of things to be taken from this number one. It was point Four, five each that got stolen, so it was not by any means a small amount of money, but it wasn't life-changing money. It wasn't like I bet the farm on it and this is my life savings, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've got my friends who've gotten worked out and like, not like you know, hundreds of thousands, but like everything they had in the space, like on in a matter of moments.
Speaker 1:Yes, right now the good parts that, yes, you know I got to keep my NFTs. I had a reserve wallet where I was able to transfer micro transactions again to get the gas, like to put it over, and Just for those listening gases, like the network fee used to like move. You know things on the blockchain. So the but the wild part and I'll we'll be wrapping up here shortly is that I'm actually a part of the photo fractional community and they did a giveaway or they were doing a game where they gave away two NFTs To token holders and you got to play a game. What you needed to have more money to play the game. So I didn't, but I was airdrop two NFTs. Two community members actually needed those pieces to complete their collection to win the master prize. I got my entire investment back in a week. You know what I mean. That's all I got to keep NFTs and I got my initial investment. I used my savings.
Speaker 2:You learn huge less and I learned a huge lesson. Yeah, okay at that. Cost is not bad at all.
Speaker 1:No, it's not and, but it just goes to show, I think I experienced every emotion on the human spectrum at day or that that week, and that was actually the day that I had actually tagged you in that, gary V2, and so I was experiencing a rush from all the engagement on that too. That all happened within like three days of each other.
Speaker 2:Four days, okay, oh yeah, which is like a year in the meta, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Last piece I want to touch on before we really wrap things up, is Is around it. Something that you mentioned is that you've sent people anonymous money in a trustless system Based on the trust that they'll give that back or they'll give you what you had asked for. I think this, such as on a larger picture, and again the gaming community has a saying, this, too, is the pseudonymous culture, like a pseudonymous society, like where, you know, we don't see the actual people that we're dealing with. We deal with avatars, you know, and to me, what I've seen is that this, actually, like where this has in some cases and a lot of cases, can remove the implication of human bias and allow people to like work with people that they don't know who they are, where they're from, they just know the qualifications of what they can do. You.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And if you put a personal profile picture in front of it that's an alien or an eight or a lion or whatever, then you have no I and you don't know what gender they are. You have no idea who the real person is behind it. It drops those barriers very quickly because you can't any assumption. No, like you can assume, this guy looks like their personal profile picture, this woman looks like their personal profile picture.
Speaker 2:But you know, I was on, I got into a I was in a Twitter spaces yesterday and it was turned out to be a podcast and the person that got on had a picture of an eight and I said, hey, man, and it was one. Yeah, yeah, right, she's okay, it was a woman. So you know, you can't even assume gender or anything. And, yes, I, it breaks down barriers. I've actually um, I'm wondering if you'd heard me talk about this anywhere else, because I've talked About this other places where I believe that this does actually break down those same barriers. It allows us to Interact with the person on the merits of the conversation rather than judging them for any other reason other than like maybe what they're. You know, if someone was using like some personal profile picture, thought was like a crappy product.
Speaker 2:I'm not judging them for that Versus a punk, but they have that punk. You know, if I looked in their wallet, they better own that punk, because that's a whole another thing, right? So I actually think that, like NFTs make good identity and that an NFT can move from wallet to wallet, so it's easy to identify who a person is based on that entity being in the wallet at the time, and More so than a wallet address. But I totally agree that this is a helps level the playing field and gets rid of some of the social issues that we see today in society. I personally am I'm doxxed, I'm not, I'm Jimmy daddy, but you can find out who I am if you look into it. Comfortable with that. I've decided I was building a reputation based on who I am. But it's interesting in this space that there are people who have remained anonymous and still found success as like leaders and things like that.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean, but you're, you're a perfect example of building the future while operating in the current, present moment. Like, what's the best way to build this? In the present moment, people still need a face of the name for a lot of, for a lot of trust to be built. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the whole of not an eminence, the anonymity thing doesn't actually work. If you want to be like a Creator in the space like other than some exceptions, like if it's an artist like pack, that's fine Like you really need to know who that artist is probably not. If you have someone like you know it worked for Satoshi Nakamoto who created, you know, bitcoin, but it wouldn't have worked, I don't think, for for Vitalik for creating Ethereum. That next step, right. I don't think there's very many examples of it being a great idea to be completely anonymous, but I do that like having that online persona that's behind things.
Speaker 2:It doesn't allow people to judge you initially in a way that is negative or has affected our current culture. I think that I think it is important, yeah, and I do think what you're saying is right. Right now, we're in a place where it has to be both to make sense, but perhaps the future we do move to that because we can do reputation based on like interactions and things like that. It hasn't been unlocked, yeah, but the is there. Once that's there and you have someone whose reputation has been built up over 15 years or 20 years, the chances of them doing something nefarious with that reputation are much lower than someone who's had that reputation for a matter of minutes or months, and that's when you can start to have a little bit more suited to do and I'm ended yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like you know, I think that's when it starts to make a lot more sense.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, man. Yeah, I mean I'm glad we ended on that point. I know we giving you about one minute for your hard stop, but, jimmy, I want to. I want to thank you for coming on, man. I really appreciate you making some time and hopefully we get to do this again.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, man. I'd be happy to go on and get a couple months. This is a great conversation, absolutely, man. Hey, have a going brother, all right, take care.
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